Finally. .. The patriot act expires..

[AllPurposeAtheist]

In a rare Sunday session, the Senate voted 77-17 to begin debate on the USA Freedom Act, the House-passed reform bill ending the NSA's dragnet surveillance program, a major capitulation by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who had attempted to force the Senate into a simple extension of the Patriot Act by waiting to vote until the last moments before the programs involved expire. That failed. As of midnight Sunday, the NSA will stop the programs and the Congress will have to come back and pass legislation the reflects the new realityâ€"these programs no longer legally exist. And McConnell brought it on himself.

    In an impassioned plea from the Senate floor, McConnell conceded that the looming deadline had forced his hand to go forward with the Freedom Actâ€"but that he still intended to offer amendments to change it from what passed the House.

    An expiration is "a totally unacceptable outcome," McConnell said. "Completely and totally unacceptable outcome." […]

    Earlier, following brief tributes by both McConnell and Minority Leader Harry Reid to the just-deceased Beau Biden, the son of Vice President Joe Biden, Reid quickly shifted gears to attack his GOP counterpart for his handling of the Patriot Act.

    "The dilemma we now face was completely avoidable," Reid said. "The job of a leader is to have a plan. In this case, it is clear the majority leader simply didn't have a plan."

The Senate will come back to the legislation on Tuesday or Wednesday, and McConnell will allow at least amendments. Whether the two that Paul has been insisting on will be among them is unclear, as McConnell is apparently insisting on a 60 vote threshold for amendments and Paul objects. There will, however, almost certainly be amendments from Intelligence Committee Chair Richard Burr that reflect his supposed "compromise" legislation that rolls back six years worth of reforms of the NSA programs.

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1389452

Anyone want to take bets on how long it takes the house and senate to retool the whole damned thing and slip it all in again in "approprations" having utterly nothing to do with "national security "?

[Savior2006]

Good riddance.

[SGOS]

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1389452

Anyone want to take bets on how long it takes the house and senate to retool the whole damned thing and slip it all in again in "approprations" having utterly nothing to do with "national security "?

I wouldn't take that bet.  Not that I have any foreknowledge about it.  I just don't think our leadership cares about citizens' privacy.  Nor do I think they care what kind of information on citizens is gathered, or how it may eventually be used.

[drunkenshoe]

Good news.

Anyone want to take bets on how long it takes the house and senate to retool the whole damned thing and slip it all in again in "approprations" having utterly nothing to do with "national security "?

Hmmm. But wouldn't they need another big one to reinstate something like that? Patriot Act passed in days, because of 9/11 and afterwards, people have constantly been fed by the fairy tale of the weapons of mass destruction, 'the end was nigh' and then invasions came etc. It looked like, it was so shocking, there was this extending moment shared by American people that everything was in danger and so most people probably saw it as an urgent neccessity. 14 years ago. And even then there were many criticism about it.

However, now, it is very different. How would they legitimise something like that a second time, in a country where all domestic politics, understanding of political dissidence is virtually based on some inflated idea of individual freedom? 

Esp. with that kind of constitution you have, trying to pass something like that again now, without any obvious reason would simply mean, 'Hey we cannot change the constitution or the related certain set of laws as we like, so we'll keep imposing some acts to override that shit. Thank you for your cooperation.' 

They will or not, this could be the new big towel between two sides to bite to pull in near future. Like some new big issue between rubes and democrats. Rubes will stand up and shout after any possible terroristic event about this, you'll see. And they will tie anything related to Obama administration and democrats every time it comes up. But again, this would need some big terroristic act with serious body count to become a serious issue, but then where is the international part to support? Now, people are used to the general idea of terrorism. There is a generation who grew up in it and others got to their adulthood with it.

I'd like to think that American people wouldn't buy into something like that under these circumstances, because after all ressurecting something like Patriot Act also a way to scare or prosecute the people of the land who are rightfully fighting against certain policies for progress. Can you imagine Republicans coming into power with that, having an excuse to reinstate that shit, NOW, after that 8 years of process of putting them in their place? I guarantee you it would be used for anything, but protection against terrorism.

Besides all that, is anyone that stupid? I don't know, it is politics everything is possible. But without any solid good reason, trying to do something like that looks like a suicide to me in aspect of general American culture. This is messing up what Americans are proud of and call themselves Americans. The equality and democracy of law in the country. Doesn't have to be real, it is not, but it HAS to be by the book. So wouldn't it be like messing up with baseball in that land?  

Anyway, good riddance as Savior put it and let's hope it is not coming back.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

PolySci friends predict it will take a century for the country to fully recover from the Bush administration.

[SGOS]

PolySci friends predict it will take a century for the country to fully recover from the Bush administration.

Could, I suppose, although hopefully, the remaining ripples will be minimal by then, and it will depend on how hard our future leadership will work to put things back together again.  While much of the damage can be repaired, it won't be a simple task, and  another bozo could undo the process, putting us back to where we are right now.  I was happy to see Bush go, but I never thought for a moment that Obama (or whoever would be the president) would fix it.  There was too much set in motion by Bush.  My main hope was for us to get out of Iraq, but I knew this would carry huge political risks for whoever, and pulling out would result in an even bigger power vacuum, which of course, nature abhors.  But the idea of staying in Iraq, while trying to prevent a blood bath for the next 50 years is a horrible consequence.  And as much as we Americans like kicking ass, we always seem to lose our heady enthusiasm when the financial burden starts to sink in.

I'm not a polysci major, but my guess would have been at least 20 years when Bush left office, but now I'm thinking it will be more like 40.  100 years?  It could be.

[Mike Cl]

Besides all that, is anyone that stupid? I don't know, it is politics everything is possible. But without any solid good reason, trying to do something like that looks like a suicide to me in aspect of general American culture. This is messing up what Americans are proud of and call themselves Americans. The equality and democracy of law in the country. Doesn't have to be real, it is not, but it HAS to be by the book. So wouldn't it be like messing up with baseball in that land?  

Anyway, good riddance as Savior put it and let's hope it is not coming back.

Not sure how that happened, but this is what I meant to say:
Baseball!--You mentioned baseball............Okay, that got my attention.
Yes, people are that stupid.  I could go on forever about that, but yes the average Joe (or as I lovingly call them SFA's stupid fucking amerikan) does not have his drive way go all the way to the street.  A couple of sound bites, and he/she is convinced of something or other. Religion and our govt. know how to generate and use fear.  Bringing back bits and pieces of the Pat. Act in various bills is not that difficult to foresee.  It will be called something else.  I can just feel it in my bones.  But I hope not.

[drunkenshoe]

And as much as we Americans like kicking ass, we always seem to lose our heady enthusiasm when the financial burden starts to sink in.

US invaded two Middle Eastern countries -who had nothing to with 9/11- killed mllions of civilians, commited atrocities, caused millions and millions of people to run away, scattered around -an unbelievable mass movement in the region- agravated all the balance- helped creation of other terrorist groups, radicalised the region, basically fucked up everything  and you called that 'ass kicking'? Or were you talking about some other 'ass kicking' before 9/11 that resulted in pretty much the same genocidal proportions?

I can see you have no regard for human life, but don't you feel at least little bit 'embarrassed' about it all? Everything is out. It's not some 'war on terrorism', it has never been, it is 'Americans killed millions of civilians for nothing'. Are you that cut out from the world?

It's very interesting to me that you perfectly know that it is all a fucking lie and nothing but killing around to gain power and resources -and also has no benefits for American people either- that they swallow the same fucking bullshit at every generation, opening their mouths for politicians lying through their ass and teeth about everything, then casue a mass destruction at every opportunity and YET you talk about it as 'ass kicking' with a blood lust expression.

What do you think this is? One of those avenger movies or some sort of a pc game? How old are you, 6?

What enthusiasm is this American people have? Making the super rich more rich and powerful and die at some where at the other side of the world? How on earth, it is possible that anyone with basic little intelligence think that these 'wars' and 'invasions' serve something good domestic or international and they are 'kicking ass'?

And then you people get annoyed when the word 'American' is used as a synonym for 'stupid'.

[SGOS]

US invaded two Middle Eastern countries -who had nothing to with 9/11- killed mllions of civilians, commited atrocities, caused millions and millions of people to run away, scattered around -an unbelievable mass movement in the region- agravated all the balance- helped creation of other terrorist groups, radicalised the region, basically fucked up everything  and you called that 'ass kicking'? Or were you talking about some other 'ass kicking' before 9/11 that resulted in pretty much the same genocidal proportions?

I can see you have no regard for human life, but don't you feel at least little bit 'embarrassed' about it all? Everything is out. It's not some 'war on terrorism', it has never been, it is 'Americans killed millions of civilians for nothing'. Are you that cut out from the world?

It's very interesting to me that you perfectly know that it is all a fucking lie and nothing but killing around to gain power and resources -and also has no benefits for American people either- that they swallow the same fucking bullshit at every generation, opening their mouths for politicians lying through their ass and teeth about everything, then casue a mass destruction at every opportunity and YET you talk about it as 'ass kicking' with a blood lust expression.

What do you think this is? One of those avenger movies or some sort of a pc game? How old are you, 6?

What enthusiasm is this American people have? Making the super rich more rich and powerful and die at some where at the other side of the world? How on earth, it is possible that anyone with basic little intelligence think that these 'wars' and 'invasions' serve something good domestic or international and they are 'kicking ass'?

And then you people get annoyed when the word 'American' is used as a synonym for 'stupid'.

I know you love to sit around stewing in your anger, and I get it that you don't understand sarcasm, and I get that your skills at reading other people are piss poor, but until you figure these things out, you can go fuck yourself.

[drunkenshoe]

I know you love to sit around stewing in your anger, and I get it that you don't understand sarcasm, and I get that your skills at reading other people are piss poor, but until you figure these things out, you can go fuck yourself.

Let me get this straight, you have written a WHOLE paragraph on the topic at how American politics is affected by this and that way about a mass destruction and you expected any readers to think that the pretty much real life bit at the end about the financial burden of that 'war' AS SARCASM in that post, you wrote in an internet forum.

And I don't understand sarcasm and I am supposed to read people through internet forum posts -like you read me?- oh and I also sit around stewing in my 'anger'. I was reacting to an underevaluation of a recent catastrophe, but you are a bit too much pissed off for a person who didn't mean any of that but just got misunderstood by another poster, don't you think?

So next time, if you really mean to be sarcastic, first don't forget you are writing something and try saying 'Hey it was sarcasm, you misunderstood me' before telling people to go fuck themselves or try to read them. OK?

[drunkenshoe]

Not sure how that happened, but this is what I meant to say:
Baseball!--You mentioned baseball............Okay, that got my attention.
Yes, people are that stupid.  I could go on forever about that, but yes the average Joe (or as I lovingly call them SFA's stupid fucking amerikan) does not have his drive way go all the way to the street.  A couple of sound bites, and he/she is convinced of something or other. Religion and our govt. know how to generate and use fear.  Bringing back bits and pieces of the Pat. Act in various bills is not that difficult to foresee.  It will be called something else.  I can just feel it in my bones.  But I hope not.

OK, yes I get that.

However, every society and culture has some 'crux' to their collective identity, something that doesn't change according to the simple political distinction, a base. It doesn't have to be real. It just needs to be affirmed constantly and it should be properly felt by the individuals of that society by certain channels and should be observed actively in results. So 'the personal freedoms and democratic system in law' bullshit is the Americans'. I reiterate, it doesn't have to be real. Everything about their culture is based on that, that is the whole propaganda. Free speech, best civil rights, freedom of religion, the best constitution to proivde freedom...etc.

If people are prevented from that ideal element they think they have, at least in bureaucratic terms, they would react. Either it has to be very subtle, but I don't get how it could be knowing a little about the previous act or something else I have no idea what it would be. But it cannot be subtle or fragmented, it beats its pupose, it doesn't work that way.

Patriot Act, overrides basic rights of any inidivdual that is found suspicious of anything related to terrrosim and anything can be related to terrorism, because it is about people. There is no proving a 'probable cause' or need of some evidence to find someone suspicious enough to prosecute, suspicion is enough. The books you read, the sites you surf, the places you go, the very messages you write...everything is potentially suspect if somebody decides that it is. This is something BEYOND not respecting privacy. Basically, the fundamental rights that modern laws give you are nullified. Forcing this on to a society without any good reason -esp. on American society- would result in conflict in long term in this or that way, sooner or later.

It's easy to call people stupid, but seldom they really are. People just don't care about anything as long as it touches them. But when people feel rendered paralyzed, feeling fell from their station, position, they act very differently. That's what I meant.

I met quite a few Americans who believed 9/11 was a planned inside job just to take these rights from Americans, because they are that an effective element of the balances in the country. Well, I find that funny, but they have a point that the existence of those rights which people take for granted everyday unless they need them, have a great infleunce on your culture as in unification of people; belonging somewhere, the bridge between their identity and their culture. Attacking that is undermining the foundation of that society. That's why I called it suicide stupid.

[Green Bottle]

So its like this, while george w and his spin doctors were fooling americans with falsehood's,  tony lying bastart blair an his dodgy government in wastemonster were doing the same to us over here, them 2 fkrs took the uk and america and others into an unnessary war based on a fkn lie so they're both Criminals, end of..

[Munch]

Thats how these motherfuckers run, how many politicians run, but those two being the worst of the worst. It came down to pocket at the end of the day.

Anyone who has a delusion that politicians have a genuine conviction to the people they govern needs to just look though history, its always been about either lies to profit off of, or lies to manipulate the majority to win votes and keep their power.

Anyway, getting off track here, its been my understanding the patriot act extended further then just american soil. While theres never been any major upheaval from it here, I am glad the creeping eyes of bush has finally died.

Now if we could just post bush and blair in a container to the middle east as an offering..

[drunkenshoe]

Aw. He arrived. I find your passive agressiveness rather amusing. I am trying to make a guess on the optimum time you liking some random post only because it is in conflict with mine. In 5 mins? No in 10. Come on, come on. It's good to know you can count on some people. You are a little rock in my daily routine Hydra. 

[drunkenshoe]

Now if we could just post bush and blair in a container to the middle east as an offering..

Hmmm. Never thought of that before. Would it work I wonder?