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10 Commandments for JohnnyB

Started by Mike Cl, May 14, 2015, 11:09:38 AM

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Mike Cl

I see, Johnny, you are not really up for a challenge.  So let me speak for you.  I will list the 'objective' cornerstone of you 'morals'.

The Bible is full of commandments given by its god Yahweh but there is only one group of commandments that he specifically gives the title "The Ten Commandments" to and they are not what most Christians think they are. If you ask almost anyone to list The Ten Commandments they will try to recite a partial list found at Exodus 20:1-17 and repeated at Deuteronomy 5:6-21. However if one reads the Bible those commandments are never referred to as "The Ten Commandments" and according to Exodus they are not even on the stone tablets. They are just select commandments from a collection which Moses recited verbally to the people in Exodus.

Where are the actual Ten Commandments?

In Exodus 24:12 Moses gets stone tablets.

In Exodus 32:19 Moses breaks the stone tablets before anyone else has a chance to read them.

In Exodus 34:1 Yahweh said to Moses, "Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke."

In Exodus 34:10-26 Yahweh says he is making a covenant with Moses then cites the commandments of the covenant.

In Exodus 34:27-28 Yahweh tells Moses to write down the commandments he just cited. The Bible says Moses wrote on the tablets (even though Yahweh said he was going to write on them) the words of the covenant then calls the covenant "The Ten Commandments."

The Ten Commandments (according to the Bible)

1.Obey the commandments. Yahweh will conquer the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, and cut down their Asherah poles.

2.Do not worship any other god, for Yahweh, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous god. Do not make treaties with those in other lands who worship other gods.

3.Do not make cast idols.

4.Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast during the first month of the Hebrew Year.

5.Sacrifice the first born of every womb, including all the firstborn males of your livestock. You can sacrifice a lamb in place of a firstborn donkey but if you do sacrifice the donkey break its neck. If your firstborn child is a boy sacrifice something else in its place. None shall appear before Yahweh without a sacrifice.

6.Do not work on the sabbath, even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

7.Celebrate the Jewish holiday "The Feast of Weeks" with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest and celebrate the Jewish holiday "The Feast of Ingathering" at the turn of the year. Three times a year all your men are to appear before the god of Israel and he will conquer surrounding nations before you enlarging your territory.

8.Do not mix blood sacrifices to Yahweh with yeast and do not let any sacrifice from the Passover Feast remain until morning.

9.Bring the firstfruits of your land to the house of Yahweh, your god.

10.Do not cook a baby goat in his mother's milk.

The name "The Ten Commandments" is only used once in the Bible and it is used for the covenant listed in Exodus 34:10-2 and according to Exodus it is this set of commandments which are on the stone tablets within the Arc of the Covenant. However, the book of Deuteronomy which was written after the book of Exodus tells us that a different list of commandments are written on the stone tablets. Deuteronomy 5:6-21 lists the more commonly known commandments as being written on the stone tablets despite what Exodus clearly tells us.


You do have a weird set of 'morals' Johnny.  Really weird.  But that is your choice.  I'd really like you to tell me how you deal with #5.  But, somehow I think you will duck this challenge, too.  I really don't blame you. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Mike Cl

Since nobody else is going to I guess I'm going to have to reply.
This is what Johnny had to say: "Sure, I'll take your challenge.  I believe the Ten Commandments to be laws revealed to mankind by God.  Since I believe God to be the objective source of morality in reality, then ny default these Commandments are morally good. "

So, for Johnny and billions of his fellow christians, this would constitute their moral foundation.  They are more morally bankrupt that I have at first imagined!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

stromboli

You're making the assumption he can count that high....... :think:

Solitary

WHO IN THE FUCK MORALS ARE WE TO OBEY AS LONG AS THEY DON'T PURPOSLY HURT ANYONE?  The Puritan ethic needs to be destroyed as soon as possible! Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

stromboli

OK bump. Seriously Mike, based on the intellectual level displayed by our aforementioned friend, and due to the fact has posted mostly on one thread and then spottily, I wouldn't be getting my hopes up for a razor sharp and devastating comeback, if you get my meaning.

Mike Cl

Quote from: stromboli on May 14, 2015, 04:57:46 PM
OK bump. Seriously Mike, based on the intellectual level displayed by our aforementioned friend, and due to the fact has posted mostly on one thread and then spottily, I wouldn't be getting my hopes up for a razor sharp and devastating comeback, if you get my meaning.
You are right, Strom.  I didn't really expect him to reply.  I just found the 'real' set of the Ten to so idiotic as to be comical.  I thought I'd share them.  And it's not like these were dug out of a weird old book nobody has heard of, but the 'literally' true bible.  We are all told to read your bible, as though the reading of this book will make you better in some way (all ways??)--and when some of us do read it and question passages like these, we are then told 'well, we didn't really mean that part'.  Brain dead would be step up for these guys.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Mike Cl

Quote from: Solitary on May 14, 2015, 04:56:02 PM
WHO IN THE FUCK MORALS ARE WE TO OBEY AS LONG AS THEY DON'T PURPOSLY HURT ANYONE?  The Puritan ethic needs to be destroyed as soon as possible! Solitary
That's just it Sol, not even the Bible can give us a straight answer.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

GSOgymrat

I don't care for commandments but if one must these are more to my liking:

THE HUMANIST TEN COMMANDMENTS

1) Thou shalt strive to promote the greater good of humanity before all selfish desires.

2) Thou shalt be curious, for asking questions is the only way to find answers.

3) Harm to your fellow human is harm to humanity. Therefore, thou shalt not kill, rape, rob, or otherwise victimize anyone.

4) Thou shall treat all humans as equals, regardless of race, gender, age, creed, identity, orientation, physical ability, or status.

5) Thou shalt use reason as your guide. Science, knowledge, observation, and rational analysis are the best ways to determine any course of action.

6) Thou shalt not force your beliefs onto others, nor insist that yours be the only and correct way to live happily.

7) If thou dost govern, thou shalt govern with reason, not with superstition. Religion should have no place in any government which represents all people and beliefs.

8) Thou shalt act for the betterment of your fellow humans, and be, whenever possible, altruistic in your deeds.

9) Thou shalt be good to the Earth and its bounties, for without it, humankind is lost.

10) Thou shalt impart thy knowledge and wisdom gained in your lifetime to the next generation, so that with each passing century, humanity will grow wiser and more humane.


Mike Cl

Quote from: GSOgymrat on May 15, 2015, 08:00:07 AM
I don't care for commandments but if one must these are more to my liking:

THE HUMANIST TEN COMMANDMENTS

1) Thou shalt strive to promote the greater good of humanity before all selfish desires.

2) Thou shalt be curious, for asking questions is the only way to find answers.

3) Harm to your fellow human is harm to humanity. Therefore, thou shalt not kill, rape, rob, or otherwise victimize anyone.

4) Thou shall treat all humans as equals, regardless of race, gender, age, creed, identity, orientation, physical ability, or status.

5) Thou shalt use reason as your guide. Science, knowledge, observation, and rational analysis are the best ways to determine any course of action.

6) Thou shalt not force your beliefs onto others, nor insist that yours be the only and correct way to live happily.

7) If thou dost govern, thou shalt govern with reason, not with superstition. Religion should have no place in any government which represents all people and beliefs.

8) Thou shalt act for the betterment of your fellow humans, and be, whenever possible, altruistic in your deeds.

9) Thou shalt be good to the Earth and its bounties, for without it, humankind is lost.

10) Thou shalt impart thy knowledge and wisdom gained in your lifetime to the next generation, so that with each passing century, humanity will grow wiser and more humane.
Ah, come on, GSO----that makes too much sense--that'd never fly!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

aitm

Mike, which version is that in? I don't get that in the KJV.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

stromboli

Quote from: aitm on May 15, 2015, 09:08:49 AM
Mike, which version is that in? I don't get that in the KJV.

Probably the NIV which is in plain English. I wouldn't know because my bible is the KJV and I burned that part already. I'm up to Psalms.....

Mike Cl

Quote from: aitm on May 15, 2015, 09:08:49 AM
Mike, which version is that in? I don't get that in the KJV.
I have the New Revised Standard Version, 1989.  It's Ex 34:11--Ex34:29 I think.  I also found it on the net.  I have a couple of other versions of the bible--I'll have to look it up in them. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

1liesalot

Quote from: Mike Cl on May 14, 2015, 04:44:42 PM
Since nobody else is going to I guess I'm going to have to reply.
This is what Johnny had to say: "Sure, I'll take your challenge.  I believe the Ten Commandments to be laws revealed to mankind by God.  Since I believe God to be the objective source of morality in reality, then ny default these Commandments are morally good. "

So, for Johnny and billions of his fellow christians, this would constitute their moral foundation.  They are more morally bankrupt that I have at first imagined!

Classic case of circular thinking going on there.

aitm

Hmm I found this to be very interesting, torah into english, very close to what you had : http://www.headcoverings-by-devorah.com/HebEngTaNaKhIndex.html
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Mike Cl

Quote from: aitm on May 15, 2015, 10:02:43 AM
Hmm I found this to be very interesting, torah into english, very close to what you had : http://www.headcoverings-by-devorah.com/HebEngTaNaKhIndex.html
Thanks, I had not seen that.  The torah also calls this list the Ten Commandments.  I have the Jerusalem Bible, which looks identical to what I posted, except they are called The Ten Words.  I also have version of the bible called The Book, and it is identical to what I posted and it too, calls them the Ten Commandments.

It is also interesting (to me, anyway) that at the time Jesus was supposed to be alive, the Holy Scripture was only the OT.  The NT came along quite a bit later.  And there were two main versions of it (and many other versions, as well), the Hebrew Bible and the Septuagint which was in Greek--the Hebrew Bible was in Hebrew or Aramaic.  Paul uses the Septuagint when he quotes Holy Scripture.  How do we know?  Because there are many verses and phrases that are different in the Hebrew Bible and the Septuagint.  And he always uses the Septuagint version.  Plus, no scripture was broken down into chapters or were the verses numbered.  That came much later.  So, from the beginning of Christianity, there was confusion/manipulation about what was said in the scriptures. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?