"When did you first notice that men were looking at you in a sexual way?"

[Draconic Aiur]

I didnt see the spoiler at 1st like I did now but i did say men who do that should be punished. I was looking athe the list of comments in the websie. Funny how peeps automatically think I'm supporting those men when i'm not.

[Mike Cl]

you mean to say your butthurt

No.  She means to say you are coming across as a zian fundamental zealot who does not listen to or even consider reason in a discussion. 

[aitm]

I always knew there were some petty nasty guys out there, but this level is certainly disheartening. I used to get shit for making jokes about pedophilia, but one day having some drinks with a bunch of guys, we got into some raunchy jokes and some of it got into kids like: "I like my women like I like my rum, carmel colored and 12 years old". That's been a fav line of mine for years, everybody laughed and later I said i should probably drop that joke as people might take it seriously, one guy laughed at me and said, "pedo's never joke about it, they don't even talk about it, they don't even acknowledge it until caught", they know their sick, that's why I never worry about the guys telling the sick jokes, its the ones that get offended that I keep an eye on". He had been working vice and child abuse for 20 years with the state of Florida.

No doubt a lot of sick fucks out there and the worse part is perhaps a majority of males may consider or even act of the possibility if they knew they wouldn't get caught. I would think that number would skyrocket if the girl showed interest. We are a highly charged sexual animal, and evolution still has some work to do. So it seems.

[Draconic Aiur]

No.  She means to say you are coming across as a zian fundamental zealot who does not listen to or even consider reason in a discussion. 

You mean it's the other way around. Discussion? No. It's more about her telling me those men should be punish which I agree. However she isn't getting what I'm saying which is looking at the whole thing in a scientific way which takes form of our unconscious and conscience thoughts as well as assumed b the dumb guys actions meaning if a few guys do it than all men are pigs notion that are society has strict rules favoring women that they deny. So i see everything is connected and Mermaid and many users are so ethically zealous they think I'm evil or something. and there just and I'm horrendous. I'm sorry i didn't see the spoiler but those are one of the comments posted on the link, and it isn't fair to say all men do this because its taken by perceptive and the fact most women's emotions are illogical. Like say for example the guy is looking at some girl but is really staring off in space. The thing that pissed me off is when Shiranu said I'm ashamed of having a dick, it made me feel we need someone to say i'm proud that i have a dick and these guys really dont or something and such as such.

[Mike Cl]

You mean it's the other way around. Discussion? No. It's more about her telling me those men should be punish which I agree. However she isn't getting what I'm saying which is looking at the whole thing in a scientific way which takes form of our unconscious and conscience thoughts as well as assumed b the dumb guys actions meaning if a few guys do it than all men are pigs notion that are society has strict rules favoring women that they deny. So i see everything is connected and Mermaid and many users are so ethically zealous they think I'm evil or something. and there just and I'm horrendous. I'm sorry i didn't see the spoiler but those are one of the comments posted on the link, and it isn't fair to say all men do this because its taken by perceptive and the fact most women's emotions are illogical. Like say for example the guy is looking at some girl but is really staring off in space. The thing that pissed me off is when Shiranu said I'm ashamed of having a dick, it made me feel we need someone to say i'm proud that i have a dick and these guys really dont or something and such as such.

I think I get a sense of where you are coming from.  I'd like to make a couple of points from your points.  I agree with you totally, that not all men are pigs.  But I think Mermaid said that as well.  When you say "which takes form of our unconscious and conscience thoughts", that is getting close to saying that men have strong biological drives, both physically and mentally, that are hard, if not impossible to control.  I hear that and being male, I know how strong my urges can be--but that does not give me an excuse to ever harass or prey on any female--including my wife.  I do have control, and it is up to me to use that control. 

You also say, "and the fact most women's emotions are illogical."  Okay, this is WW III stuff here. :)  Women's emotions are no more illogical than mens;  and no more logical.  Different?  Sure, I can buy that.  And for that reason a person needs to be aware of what and how they say things to each other.  Clearly men and women are wired differently.  I kind of like that.  That's why I regard my teaming up with my wife to be beneficial to both of use.  Two views of the same subject or idea.  That is almost always valuable.  We are a partnership because we bring different views and talents to the table.  All too often I have heard men say that women don't often really know what they want, so they will just give it to them until they realize they like it.   That is not really acceptable, but all too often, the reality of the situation. 

You said--" The thing that pissed me off is when Shiranu said I'm ashamed of having a dick, it made me feel we need someone to say i'm proud that i have a dick and these guys really dont or something and such as such."  Okay, I see that you want to champion the men's side of this issue.  But I feel as Shiranu, at times I'm ashamed that I have a dick too.  Where do you think the term "be be such a dick" comes from?  Men too often are bulls in a china shop, taking what they need (all too often a want is transformed into a need, which is something they have no control over) no matter what the female may say about it. ' After all she really doesn't know what she wants anyway.' 

And yes, you did mention that you had not read the 'spoiler'.  But if you want to get into a deep (or meaningful) discussion about a subject, you need to read what is being discussed.  Too often zians don't do that and simply tell you what they believe without really knowing what is being discussed.  I saw you as going off 'half cocked', as it were, and you and Mermaid ended up talking past each other, and not at each other.  I lay most of that on your doorstep for trying to fill in the blanks without going to the trouble of reading the subject being discussed. 

One of the things a good board has is a large number of different points of view.  That can lead to new and different ways of looking at old (or new) subjects.  But in order for those points of view to be meaningful means that they be informed.  If one is not informed about something it is impossible to have a decent discussion about it.

[Aletheia]

Why do I get the feeling that Draconic Aiur will start paying attention to the discussion now that Mike Cl, a male, has reiterated much of the same things the female members of the forum have discussed?

I understand this topic can be rather touchy, but not for the reasons some may assume. Yes, men and women have different biological features, but these are not enough to overcome the fact that we both have intellectual minds, emotions, and sexual desire. Both men and women have much to offer for the progress of mankind - many of which extend well beyond our rudimentary biological functions. It is understood that both men and women take issue with how the other has treated them, and both have their own difficulties tempering their biological drives for the sake of adapting to civil society.

This is not a competition between the sexes to see who has it worst or who displays the best behaviours in society. Rather, this is an issue between one group of human individuals and another. A society will have to learn how to moderate our expression of sexual desire between individuals and set the boundaries of what is acceptable and what is not. It does not matter what gender or sexual orientation of the individual, we are striving for equality which applies to all.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Why do I get the feeling that Draconic Aiur will start paying attention to the discussion now that Mike Cl, a male, has reiterated much of the same things the female members of the forum have discussed?

Because wimminfolk's opinions count less, of course.

[Draconic Aiur]

I agree with you Mike Cl and also you Aletheia. in the ethical way these men and that act like this need to be punished and we need to stop this at early stages by understand the biological senses of humans. But to do this it be like the giver World where men and womens urges are cancelled and only a select few can mate. So if there was law wize a plan we can make to stop all this depressing shit without negativly blocking the sex drive of everyone out there and also find out y these men do such a thing.

[Aletheia]

I agree with you Mike Cl and also you Aletheia. in the ethical way these men and that act like this need to be punished and we need to stop this at early stages by understand the biological senses of humans. But to do this it be like the giver World where men and womens urges are cancelled and only a select few can mate. So if there was law wize a plan we can make to stop all this depressing shit without negativly blocking the sex drive of everyone out there and also find out y these men do such a thing.

Nah. No need to be melodramatic. Nobody (other than bat-shit insane religious people) want sexual desire to be repressed. We are sexual creatures - it permeates so many facets of our lives. Rather, we need to compromise on what is an appropriate way in which to express this sexual desire. Obviously, we need some way to communicate to others that we find them attractive and desire sex. Sexual jokes are among the easiest and most delightfully perverted jokes. Much like working environments and other public places, there are agreed "neutral" manners and behaviour. Sexual expression can be tailored to be mentioned without being uncomfortably vulgar and offers of sexual advances can be declined without fear of repercussion.

I think it's fair to say that's what women want. No castration of men, no all-encompassing suppression of sexual desire, or a tricky game in which whatever you say can be considered a weapon. Just a less intrusive and more neutral way of sexual expression that doesn't infringe on a person's rights. This can be accomplished by self-discipline and discovering safer avenues of conveying these needs and desires.

Men aren't the only ones with strong libidos. I can't speak for all women, but my own libido is quite high and I think about sex hundreds of times a day. There are times when I lose myself to some fantasy involving someone I've just seen, but at some point I have to shut down this imagery and shut down my sexual desire. It's frustrating, but when you're at work you have to adjust. Sometimes it puts me in a bit of a pissy mood, yet such is life. When I get home, I can take my sexual frustrations out on my boyfriend or look up female porn on the internet.

[Mermaid]

I would never say anything about all men being bad and sex drive being wrong. You are blaming me for saying a lot of things I never said. Especially that all men are pigs and looking at women in a sexual way is wrong. I NEVER said that and I WOULD NOT say that.

MY ONLY POINT, AND I WILL PUT THIS IN ALL CAPS SO MAYBE YOU WILL READ IT: APPROACHING A CHILD SEXUALLY EVEN IF YOU DO NOT TOUCH HER HURTS THE CHILD. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT THINK IT DOES.

[Mermaid]

By the way, I never said anything about you being evil, either. I think you are filling in gaps and blaming me? Don't take out your frustrations on me please.

[PickelledEggs]

Drac. You better cut it out. You are pissing a lot of people off with your stubbornly ignorant comments, including me.

[Draconic Aiur]

Oh? And your getting angry because what I say seems horrible to you while I'm trying to stay calm and collected and discuss the natures of stuff which drives mermaid mad because the subject is something to get mad at. pickled your too protective of things.

Ignorant? LOL. I'm going deeper in the subject.

[Munch]

Joining in late to this discussion, just want to add my two cent to it. While being gay I've never been in a position like the women in those posts, i've also never had any sense of desire in me that seems to be a problem with these men in question, that of having a sexual thrill with youth to the point they see having sex with children their only greatest thrill. I've, sadly, even seen this reflected in yaoi art boards of people sexualizing young male characters in the same way.

For me there isn't anything that could turn off any sexual aspect more then the idea of children coming under that kind of assault. However, this debate got me thinking more at length with the problems we read about coming from countries like islam with underage marriages and full grown men wanting to marry and have sex with girls as young as 8-9. There is this animal aspect to the human mind that for many people across the planet that hasn't evolved past that primitive state where morality is the standard for protecting children, and all they care about is their base desire being satisfied.

I've not sure if the workings of this comes from an abusive childhood, because its taught that its acceptable, or if it isn't something psychological that develops in the mind of men (and woman) that its ok to have sex with children because they think it is. Unfortunately, such a thing will always be hard to recognize, and even if its taught as a bad thing to kids in schools, theres no way of knowing if they won't still grow up with that mentality.

Obviously this isn't something that should ever be accepted, but i've often thought it is something that should be brought into study, looking at societies as a whole in their beliefs on it, why they thought it was okay to have sex with children, and maybe from that, in time, develop better means of combating such a disgusting way of thinking.

Just for the record though of course I'm not saying this is exclusively a male only thing, as there are so many cases of women doing the same thing to young boys, maybe not as many as men to young girls, but it does happen.

[Munch]

MY ONLY POINT, AND I WILL PUT THIS IN ALL CAPS SO MAYBE YOU WILL READ IT: APPROACHING A CHILD SEXUALLY EVEN IF YOU DO NOT TOUCH HER HURTS THE CHILD. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT THINK IT DOES.

You know I'm certain I've seen creepypastas written with that in mind, to a child, a stranger coming at them is terrifying enough.. but regardless just the matter that an adult would do that and have that in mind is what needs to be combated.

Its just a curious thing, why does this exist in the human mind even today, millions of years past our evolution from bonobos