Understanding "atheism taugh in schools" stance

[widdershins]

This always bugged me, the idea that schools are teaching atheism.  I always thought, and rightly so (at least partially) that those who claimed this believed that not talking about their god in a good light and only their god was, by default, teaching atheism.  Sort of a "with us or against us" thing.  Well, it turns out that is very much the case, but with some additional jackassery thrown in.  It turns out evolution and "millions of year old earth" (Ken Ham apparently can't comprehend "billions") are also religion.

By looking to honestly understand the other point of view in response to an article I read today I went looking up Ken Ham's views on religion in school, which I found plainly spelled out here.

It is interesting to note the comment about Christians who "see a purpose in enforcing church-state separation in public schools."  This is another major problem in the church.  Most Christians think there is a neutral position in such matters, but there is no such position as a neutral one.  One is either for Christ or against—one walks in light or darkness.  Christians need to understand that if a curriculum is not for Christ, it is against.  If the teacher's worldview is not for Christ, it is against Christ.  The false idea of neutrality has resulted in generations of kids from the church being taught the pagan religion of evolution, which is contributing to the Exodus of youth from the church we are seeing right now.

So, it starts out with the familiar false dichotomy I had always assumed, but far more venomous than I had ever imagined it.  If a curriculum isn't specifically pro-God, it is specifically against God.  So, apparently, regular math, reading, history and, of course, science is evil.  You need to teach God-math, God-reading, God-history and, of course, God-science.  But it goes even further.  Evolution is a pagan religion, apparently.  Atheism, according to this prick, is also a religion, of course.  In fact, everything's a religion.  Teaching that the earth is millions of years old is a religion.  Forget that nobody teaches that because it's really billions of years old, but it's a religion.  And this quote is the clincher:

It is important to understand there are ultimately only two religions in the world—one starts with God's Word and the other with man's word.

When you look at everything in those terms it's no wonder this dumb fuck thinks atheism is being taught in schools.  There are "two religions" in the world.  They amount to "mine" and "not-mine".  And if you're not teaching "mine" then you're teaching "not-mine".  And, of course, the only fair thing to do would be to teach only "mine".  That's fair to everyone.

I went into this hoping to understand.  I mean, both sides don't have to be battling all the time.  It's not us against them, or at least, I don't want it to be.  There are Christians who are damned good people.  I know this to be true.  But, try as I might to understand this prick's point of view all I found was that he purposely makes it us against them.  He purposely lumps everything that isn't specifically "his way" into a single "you hate me" category.  There is absolutely, positively no way to reconcile with a jackass like this.  There can be no intelligent dialogue.  There can be no common ground.  In fact, he specifically states that there is no middle ground.  You are either for him or against him and he is right, so you are either on his side or you are his enemy.  This is not a nice man.  This is not a compassionate man.  This is not a reasonable man.  I so wanted him to be, but he's just not.

So, not only am I disillusioned at the idea that we can all just get along, I'm now more "against him" than I was in the beginning, which, I'm sure, is exactly what the prick wants.  He wants us combative.  He wants us angry.  He wants us to help him maintain the image he has of us all being angry, militant, vile people, and we do just that.  We see this trash he's spouting and it pisses us off, making us portray ourselves as the very type of person he already imagines us to be.  I say we don't help him.  I say, instead, we show him the compassion he won't show us.  That's right, folks, I'm talking national, "We love Ham" day!  And it would be easy, because I really do love ham!  And Bacon.  I just watched Stir of Echoes again last night, and Tremors the night before.  A little overacting, but I just love Kevin Bacon!  Maybe we could honor both at the same time with, "We love Bacon and Ham" day!  What do you think?

[Plu]

At least he understands the part where "not stamping christianity into the kids' heads" is the root cause of kids leaving the church. That's something, I guess.

[GurrenLagann]

I understand some of this all too well. However, I don't recall ever thinking of schools as "teaching atheism", and I was a fundamentalist Baptist here in Texas. :O To borrow from NonStampCollector, if not believing in Yahweh is my religion, then so is not believing in Apollo, Thor, Zeus, Bacchus, Sekmet, Ra, [insert unending list].

As usual however, this guy is an idiot with no amount of tolerance whatsoever.... Touched by God indeed! :D
What you guys have to understand is, you're just not getting through to someone like that, or if you could get through, the conversation (if even allowed) will end right then and there. :/

[widdershins]

I understand some of this all too well. However, I don't recall ever thinking of schools as "teaching atheism", and I was a fundamentalist Baptist here in Texas. :O To borrow from NonStampCollector, if not believing in Yahweh is my religion, then so is not believing in Apollo, Thor, Zeus, Bacchus, Sekmet, Ra, [insert unending list].

That is exactly what he claims.  Your choices in religion are A) Christianity or B) Not Christianity.  All people who are non-Christian are the only "other" religion.  You are one or the other.  Hindu, Muslim, Atheist, Jewish, Wiccan, Satanist...all the same religion.

As usual however, this guy is an idiot with no amount of tolerance whatsoever.... Touched by God indeed! :D
What you guys have to understand is, you're just not getting through to someone like that, or if you could get through, the conversation (if even allowed) will end right then and there. :/

Trust me, I am very aware of that now.

[Poison Tree]

At least he understands the part where "not stamping christianity into the kids' heads" is the root cause of kids leaving the church. That's something, I guess.

I'm actually incredibly surprised that he says kids are leaving the church, at least in public. Usually it is all about how his side is winning and growing at an incredible rate.

[Johan]

Ok so let me get this straight, its the fact that evolution is being taught that is driving kids from the church but the pedophilia has nothing to do with it. Ok got it thanks.

[Savior2006]

Ok so let me get this straight, its the fact that evolution is being taught that is driving kids from the church but the pedophilia has nothing to do with it. Ok got it thanks.

I remember somebody brought up a study of Catholics being surveyed as to what was to blame for people leaving the church. "Secularism" was high and "priest fucking little boys" was pretty low I think. Just goes to show how warped these people are.

[widdershins]

Ok so let me get this straight, its the fact that evolution is being taught that is driving kids from the church but the pedophilia has nothing to do with it. Ok got it thanks.

I remember somebody brought up a study of Catholics being surveyed as to what was to blame for people leaving the church. "Secularism" was high and "priest fucking little boys" was pretty low I think. Just goes to show how warped these people are.

That is the saddest, stupidest thing I can ever remember hearing (well, learning, reading, whatever).  It really shouldn't surprise me, though.  After all, the Catholic church did blame the media, the '60 and the '70s for their rampant pedophilia.  Really the blame is on anyone but them for anything and everything.  But it still shocks me to hear it every time, I guess.

[Hydra009]

So, not only am I disillusioned at the idea that we can all just get along, I'm now more "against him" than I was in the beginning, which, I'm sure, is exactly what the prick wants.  He wants us combative.  He wants us angry.  He wants us to help him maintain the image he has of us all being angry, militant, vile people, and we do just that.  We see this trash he's spouting and it pisses us off, making us portray ourselves as the very type of person he already imagines us to be.  I say we don't help him.  I say, instead, we show him the compassion he won't show us.  That's right, folks, I'm talking national, "We love Ham" day!  And it would be easy, because I really do love ham!  And Bacon.  I just watched Stir of Echoes again last night, and Tremors the night before.  A little overacting, but I just love Kevin Bacon!  Maybe we could honor both at the same time with, "We love Bacon and Ham" day!  What do you think?

Eh...I dunno about all that.  But I do know that this guy isn't going to be happy unless the schools are preaching his religion.  We need only reply that in that case, he's just not going to be happy and move on.  A simple "too bad" is my answer to all his hysterical complaints.

[commonsense822]

At least he understands the part where "not stamping christianity into the kids' heads" is the root cause of kids leaving the church. That's something, I guess.

I'm actually incredibly surprised that he says kids are leaving the church, at least in public. Usually it is all about how his side is winning and growing at an incredible rate.

I think they were originally hoping that false hope would help to reverse the decline of Christianity.  Kind of shouting "the grass is greener over here!" as a tactic to try and get people to believe.  Now they realized that has completely failed, so it's time to start scaring the shit out of their members now in order to rock them outta the mold and get them to mobilize and act.

[Dena]

I went into this hoping to understand.  

I don't know that it's possible to understand the likes of Ham. He's living with a deep need to prove him faith correct because he lives in fear that if he is wrong, he will suffer for it. That fear runs so deep that he cannot pull himself out of it and think logically. You can understand unless you live with that same fear. I do imagine there comes a point where they just want to be right. They have lived their entire lives working for this "cause" and to admit they might have been wrong would be so wounding to their pride and sense of self that they will never let it happen.