When did Islam become the bad guy?

[pr126]

In today's political climate of manipulations, lies, misdirections and denials facts and truths became subjective.

Lies are repeated so often, that they have become truths.

For example, before the 1967 war there was no mention of the "Palestinian People".
Searching the UN archives reveals no records whatsoever of a Palestine State before that date.

It was the invention of Yasser Arafat after losing the 6 day war.
The so called "Palestinian People" were Arabs from Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc. whom for political purposes became a "Nation" which has not existed before.
There was no Palestinian borders, government, currency, or anything that resembles a nation.

Historically it was a Turkish ruled territory, vilayets, later a British Mandate.

Rewriting history


I'll go a step further, and be an eyewitness to this, as I have lived there between 1956 to 1967.
There was no mention at all of the "Palestinian People" through that time. The idea did not exist then.


Palestinian people do not exist

Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here’s what he said:

    The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.

    For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

Again, find your own links if this is unacceptable.

[trdsf]

Oh ok. So you're saying a similar thing like aitm was; We never really even knew anything about what Islam was before then, and the stuff with the oil gave us a better peek at what it is.

Sortakinda yeah.  The Western attitude toward Islam after the Crusades was more or less to pretend it wasn't there, or occasionally bump into it awkwardly while trying to colonize somewhere.  Besides, Europe was busily engaged in the Reformation, Counter-reformation, and that spirited debate about Catholicism and Protestantism they called the 30 Years War (et al.).

Now, I'm not old enough to remember Middle Eastern history between the end of WWII and the rise of OPEC as a major economic force, but my reading of history indicates that politically, it was of far more interest to the US whether a particular Arab leader was "ours" or "theirs" (i.e., the Soviets) than whether or not they were an Islamic culture or state.  Personally, I don't recall events being cast explicitly in terms of Islamic fundamentalism until the Iranian revolution (keeping in mind that I was only in my middle teens at the time).  Before that, I seem to recall that part of the world was usually presented as the Arab world, which happened to be mostly Islamic, but Islam as a "threatening religion" so to speak is really more a product of the Iranian revolution and the hostage crisis.

Before that, Islam was just part of their so-called "alienness" to the western world.  After that, their "alienness" was defined in terms of Islam more than anything else -- in that "AAAAH!! It's different from us, you should be terrified of it!!!" way that the media loves to do.

[SGOS]

Before that [the hostage crisis], Islam was just part of their so-called "alienness" to the western world.  After that, their "alienness" was defined in terms of Islam more than anything else -- in that "AAAAH!! It's different from us, you should be terrified of it!!!" way that the media loves to do.

That's pretty much the way it was to Americans before the hostage crisis, I think.  Although to me, Islam was certainly part of the "alienness".  It was the alienness of a culture of fervent fundamentalist worship with huge gatherings of men down on their knees facing the same direction with their butts sticking up the air, all begging their god for favor.  I came from a fundamentalist Christian family, and that was a type of groveling that was alien to me, and a defining part of the culture.  I didn't actually know much about Islam at the time, but the fervor seemed a bit spooky.

However, during that time, Islam was not posing a threat that I was aware of.  No attacks were being made on Western Culture.  People from Europe might want to correct me on that.  You are right at pushing the change in American perception back to the time of the oil embargo.  That was economic, not physical, but probably more damaging to the world than any physical threat the Mideast now poses.  I've read that the collapse of the soviet union was more influenced by skyrocketing oil prices than anything else.  The embargos were damaging and serious to be sure.  But I didn't associate that with Islam as much as good old fashion greed.

Perceptions about Islam, I think, began to change with the hostage crisis.  That was the first time I was aware of where a physical threat to the US from Islam existed, and I believe that fear of that threat was justified.  It wasn't just a media hype.  It was a horrible event that went beyond defiance and was potentially physically harmful to Americans.  But still the American reaction to that was more like caution towards the motives of the Mideast.

But 9/11 brought it home.  I think Americans are still struggling and divided over what that means.  Some see it as a threat from Islam, and some deny it as just a few vandals having a good time.  I personally take it as a threat from Islam.  I have no reason to question Al Qaeda or ISIS when they openly define their violence as the work of Islam. This is coming from the horses mouth, not some talking head on the television who wants to use a paradoxical spin to say it's something else.  In fact, the directives of Islam have been recorded in the Quran all along.  But few Americans ever knew what was actually in the Quran.  So was the Islam of the past, the one we knew nothing about and mostly ignored, the "true" Islam?  I would have a hard time making that case.

[pr126]

Unfortunately there is still a woeful, you could say willful ignorance on Islam in general.

Governments and the media are not helpful by covering up, downplaying or flatly denying that Islamic atrocities have anything to do with Islam.
The speeches by Obama, Cameron, Merkel, Hollande and assorted heads of states are denying that Islam is to blame. When did they became Islamic theologians?


They asserting that the deeds by ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taleban are not true Islam, and they are perverting the texts for their own purposes.

Anyone who reads and understands the Islamic texts knows that they  [ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taleban, etc.] are indeed following Islamic scriptures and Muhammad's teachings to the letter.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Anyone who reads and understands the Islamic texts knows that they  [ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taleban, etc.] are indeed following Islamic scriptures and Muhammad's teachings to the letter.

Religion finds a way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkWeMvrNiOM

[pr126]

Hijiri Byakuren wrote:

Religion finds a way.

That is because of ignorance,  apathy, indifference.

[d4w6zBak]

Here's a Big WTF!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268395/Adil-Rashid-Paedophile-claimed-Muslim-upbringing-meant-didnt-know-illegal-sex-girl-13.html

[Shiranu]

I forgot; I guess it probably also became an American boogieman when men like Malcom X and Cassius Marcellus Clay converted to Islam and realised that it taught that the black man, the brown man, the yellow man, the white man, the red man and every other shade were equal. I know that pissed alot of white people off to hear that.

[Munch]

Here's a Big WTF!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268395/Adil-Rashid-Paedophile-claimed-Muslim-upbringing-meant-didnt-know-illegal-sex-girl-13.html

And where are all the feminazis now on this?

[Cocoa Beware]

I forgot; I guess it probably also became an American boogieman when men like Malcom X and Cassius Marcellus Clay converted to Islam and realised that it taught that the black man, the brown man, the yellow man, the white man, the red man and every other shade were equal. I know that pissed alot of white people off to hear that.

There are something like 50 million Caucasian Muslims in Europe.

People who equate this to a racial issue at this point are being intellectually dishonest. Not saying its you necessarily... Im just hoping that's not what you're hinting at. Regardless, it bears mentioning.

There are a lot of Ben Afflecks out there, and for my liking far too many people heed the words of pundits like Reza Aslan who confusticate and conflagrate using half truths.

[pr126]

Ah, but the race card is very effective, so useful. It is the Joker in the pack, trumps it all.

What race is Islam?

[Jason78]

(rough numbers)
100 million by Christians, 2 million by Muslims. Who is the real threat?

Not a fair comparison.   Christians have been around a bit longer.  They've had more time to get some killing in.  We need a proper graph, not a pie chart.

[Jason78]

I forgot; I guess it probably also became an American boogieman when men like Malcom X and Cassius Marcellus Clay converted to Islam and realised that it taught that the black man, the brown man, the yellow man, the white man, the red man and every other shade were equal. I know that pissed alot of white people off to hear that.

It teaches that people like you and me are worth nothing next to other men.

[Draconic Aiur]

When the World Trade Center fell, I was in 7th grade... about 13 years old. I was still identifying as a christian, even though I don't think I actually believed anymore and there was only one muslim kid that I knew of. In my town that I just moved to, about half of the people were Jewish and about half were christian, so the concept of Islam was a VERY distant concept.

When I think about my mom's heritage, with her family coming from Turkey at the turn of the century, I remember her telling me that my grandma and grandpa's parents came to the U.S. to escape the Armenian Genocide that was happening there at the time (give or take a few years)...

For people in the forum that are older than me (and ideally were atheist their whole lives)... when did Islam become the bad guy?
-Did it all of a sudden become a concept of interest after 2001 with the terrorist attacks?
-or was there another instance that happened before that that you can remember?
-or has it always been a concept of interest in that way? (as far as you can remember)

As someone that is probably too young to answer the question myself, I'm just curious.

When it was created. Duh

[d4w6zBak]

A picture can say a thousand words.