Author Topic: Is death negative?  (Read 5544 times)

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2015, 09:25:39 PM »
Ceasing to exist could also be expressed as the negation of existence.  After death you will eventually decompose, leaving a gap in human reality.  That's negative.

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2015, 09:38:51 PM »
it is inevitable but is it a bad thing or a good thing, or is death just happen and holds no connotation
death just is.  Like the universe.  It just is.  It does not care what you feel or think about it.  It just is.  Death is like that.  It just is.  What you think about it is totally up to you.  Really, there is no 'good' or 'bad'--there are events that just are.  And you then, have to create your own good and bad.  For me death is bad when it causes me to grieve.  And it is good when it releases someone from pain and suffering.  But those are labels I have to define and then apply myself.  For me, death just is--and I'm okay with that.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2015, 11:11:23 PM »
death just is.  Like the universe.  It just is.  It does not care what you feel or think about it.  It just is.  Death is like that.  It just is.  What you think about it is totally up to you.  Really, there is no 'good' or 'bad'--there are events that just are.  And you then, have to create your own good and bad.  For me death is bad when it causes me to grieve.  And it is good when it releases someone from pain and suffering.  But those are labels I have to define and then apply myself.  For me, death just is--and I'm okay with that.

But no matter the absolute indifference of reality ... you are not indifferent ... you are far more interesting than billions of useless galaxies.  So when you experience something that is subjectively bad for you, or you are trying to avoid something that is subjectively bad for you ... you don't tell yourself ... "it just is" ;-)
שלום

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2015, 11:31:34 PM »
But no matter the absolute indifference of reality ... you are not indifferent ... you are far more interesting than billions of useless galaxies.  So when you experience something that is subjectively bad for you, or you are trying to avoid something that is subjectively bad for you ... you don't tell yourself ... "it just is" ;-)
Thanks for finding me interesting--not everybody does.  Yes, when I experience something that is subjectively bad, it is bad.  Otherwise, I'd not call it bad.  But what is bad for me may not be so for anybody else.  But I don't care since it is bad for me.  Of course I try to avoid anything that is subjectively bad for me--but the reality is that I cannot control that all that much.  So, when something bad happens to me I know that it is bad--but the ultimate truth is that it just is.  And the sooner I can come to terms with that idea, the sooner the bad stops influencing me.  As Forrest says--shit happens--good shit, bad shit---it's up to me to figure out which is which and what to do about it.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2015, 01:21:56 AM »
Is death a bad thing? I have mourned the loss of friends, family, and mentors. But is death negative.

The premise being death is ceasing to exist; silence, peace, the end, or whatever you want to call it.

Death is negative because it subtracts from the population. Birth is positive because it adds to the population. Did I just over-simplify this?
As for silence and peace.......I can get that from a quiet place with a good book. Don't need to die.
Q for theists; how can there be freewill and miracles? And, how can prayer exist in an environment as regimented as "gods plan"?

"I'm a polyatheist, there are many gods I don't believe in." - Dan Fouts

Offline aitm

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2015, 07:06:19 AM »
I think it rather depends of how it pertains to us. For instance, death to someone else is the end of their life and we can see it and feel it and have emotional responses. But personally, there is only life. We cannot understand what nothing feels like since we have never felt "nothing". We cannot (at least I cannot) remember anything prior to birth, which includes feeling, and most likely we cannot know what nothing feels like when we die. So, imo, the reality is we only understand living. We can only live. We will not even know when we die as once living becomes death we will not know the line has been crossed. There is the idea of death, we understand what it means, but we cannot experience it. And to be "brought back to life" is not to be dead.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Baruch

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2015, 11:29:27 AM »
Mike CL ... I do care about you and what you think ... though not in a gay fashion ;-)  That is why I followed you here, though that isn't the only reason why I stay ;-))
שלום

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2015, 11:47:30 AM »
Mike CL ... I do care about you and what you think ... though not in a gay fashion ;-)  That is why I followed you here, though that isn't the only reason why I stay ;-))
I was always interested in your comments and commentaries on the ORT board.  Kept me coming back to that place even after years of being away.  I always thought you'd like this place and the grand cast of characters that frequent this place.  I know I do. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2015, 01:34:52 PM »
I was always interested in your comments and commentaries on the ORT board.  Kept me coming back to that place even after years of being away.  I always thought you'd like this place and the grand cast of characters that frequent this place.  I know I do.

If you knew me face to face, you would know that even I don't know what is coming out of my mouth before I hear it myself.  And we have similar scholarly interest in why the Bible isn't literal.  When we come back years later, sometimes when we read something we wrote way back then, it seems like someone else wrote it.  In my case, I want to have that experience, immediately ;-))
שלום

Offline Deidre32

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2015, 09:28:05 PM »
It's only negative when I think of those who have died, and didn't live their lives to their potential. Or they were too afraid to attempt their dreams. A life not fully lived, is worse than death. (IMO) We will all die someday, and we don't know when or how...so make the most of the life we have, while we have it.
The only lasting beauty, is the beauty of the heart. - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2015, 10:45:44 PM »
I agree with your last sentence.

But to imagine that everyone is a failure who didn't become Dr Jonas Salk ... really?  And being disappointed is a part of growing up (in so far as we fail to live up to our own measurements, let alone the imagined measurements of others).
שלום

Offline Deidre32

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2015, 11:33:18 PM »
I never said that Baruch. Why are you putting words in my mouth? Your life's attempt at living life to the fullest will be different from mine...I'm not suggesting everyone is the same.

So tired of people putting words in my posts that I don't post. I'm starting to think it's so the person feels superior when arguing against a negative I never said.
The only lasting beauty, is the beauty of the heart. - Rumi

Is death negative?
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2015, 01:14:45 AM »
So tired of people putting words in my posts that I don't post. I'm starting to think it's so the person feels superior when arguing against a negative I never said.
No, it is a completely normal way of checking that they understood what you write. It is like a control question. Discussion on by posts will always be below the minimum information threshold really needed so we need to guess what the poster wanted to say and that guess  is what we reply to.

So it is rather a case of "never attribute to malice what can be caused by incompetence" were the incompetence is a more of a result of the medium (internet forum), not necessarily the poster.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 01:17:03 AM by facebook164 »

Offline Baruch

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2015, 06:54:58 AM »
Deidre32 ... my apologies for choice of words in my implication.  And I still hope for a clarification.  Like Jeopardy, I should have phrased as a question ;-)

So what is a person's potential?  I don't know except on an individual basis, and not even then ... it is a mystery to me.

So what does it mean to "not live up to"?  This is a mystery to me also.  I take this personally, as the father of a handicapped child.

Though we are both in agreement, that in general we hope the best in individual self development for everyone.  If life not fully lived is .. hell ... then relative to some arbitrarily high standard, we are all in hell.

But I agree, that feeling sad for those who have passed ... because their story has ended, and they won't have further opportunities ... is genuine and shared ;-)
שלום

Offline SGOS

Re: Is death negative?
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2015, 07:59:39 AM »
I agree with your last sentence.

But to imagine that everyone is a failure who didn't become Dr Jonas Salk ... really?  And being disappointed is a part of growing up (in so far as we fail to live up to our own measurements, let alone the imagined measurements of others).

For me, it's not about saving the world.  I just don't want to be lying on my death bed feeling like dumb ass because I couldn't figure out what the point of my life was.  If you go out struggling with such a simple question, you've probably missed a shit pot full of good things you could have done.