Author Topic: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!  (Read 29187 times)

Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« on: February 11, 2015, 03:32:10 PM »
I live in Oregon, which has a dismal vaccination rate due to the turbo liberal, crunchy, rich, entitled bunch that buy into the pseudoscientific hype, AND the uneducated science denying conservatives, both of which this state has an abundance of.  Fortunately, we've only seen one case of measles so far, though I expect more as the year progresses.

So I belong to another forum for Secular Homeschooling.  All the homeschooling groups in my area are VERY Christian oriented, so this online group was the best I could do.  Anyway, someone posted some good vaccine information on there, and of course, it started an argument.

One person claimed her son got epilepsy after a vaccine.  Another that her son had severe allergic reactions after every vaccine, (why did they keep giving them to him if he had to be hospitalized and almost died after every single one???).  I know doctors will stop vaccinating if the person has a history of allergic reactions to vaccines.  Those people go on the list of "cannot e vaccinated due to known medical issues", as far as I have ever heard.

And of course, because it's homeschooling and a number of people do that because their child is "on the spectrum" (note: I hate that term), there are a few who think vaccines cause autism....still....grrr.

A number of people who were personally Pro-vaccine also jumped into the debate to argue that it was a personal choice issue.  None of our business if parents don't vaccinate their kids! And not all vaccines are 100% effective, so even if you get a shot, you still have a chance to contract the disease.

Another mother pointed out that it was unvaccinated children who were the ones spreading the current outbreak of measles around.  Yes, unvaccinated people get it, but there is only one known case EVER where they spread it (vaccinated people, even if they get the disease, get a far less serious case of it and are less infectious).

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that so many people were...pro-choice?  But I was surprised that so many were anti-vaccine and believed a lot of misinformation.  Like most science deniers, they have a handful of "experts" who will back them up, and they think the rest of the scientists are in with Merc I guess, to make money? I don't even know.  But it does really remind me of Climate change deniers.  The conversations was very frustrating, because most of the deniers would get angry and leave the conversation after declaring those of us making reasoned arguments to be biased and only looking at one side of the argument, and sometimes accusing us of calling them stupid (which no one ever did).  Really.  I've looked and looked and LOOKED for any good reasons not to vaccinate.  The only good reason I can find is legit health reasons, in which case your doc wouldagree with you.  And to protect those people, the ones who cannot get vaccines because they are immune-compromised or prone to seizures or what have you, is the reason the rest of us need to vaccinate our kids and ourselves.

Anyway, the argument died there because one side left (and they were ungracious and snotty about it, too).  So I thought I'd stir us some shi...I mean, bring the discussion here, and see what you all think!
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.  LLAP"
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Offline SGOS

Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2015, 03:45:53 PM »
You get to send your kids to school so they can play unvaccinated children.  I hate stupidity.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2015, 03:50:54 PM »
Anti-vaxxers are basically self culling their own herds.. I say let em go ahead and die off from perfectly preventable diseases and if they infect the rest of us then go ahead and shoot the dumb motherfuckers..
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Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2015, 04:10:52 PM »
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Online PickelledEggs

Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2015, 04:36:14 PM »
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Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2015, 04:38:33 PM »
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Anti-vaxxers are basically self culling their own herds.. I say let em go ahead and die off from perfectly preventable diseases and if they infect the rest of us then go ahead and shoot the dumb motherfuckers..
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Online PickelledEggs

Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2015, 04:46:28 PM »
The problem with the "let them be unvaccinated and kill themselves off" is that they endanger people that are not able to be vaccinated... like infants too young and the rare case of someone with a medical issue that makes it dangerous to vaccinate. The second scenario I believe is rare and only pertains to children that are recovering from cancer and similar possibly fatal diseases, but the first one is very common because it is literally every infant. Like the child in the link I just shared (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ) A child can be exposed to it even if the parents are pro-vaccination. All it takes is one dumbass, moronic, anti-vaxxer to fuck things up for the innocent families around them.

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2015, 04:51:44 PM »
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The problem with the "let them be unvaccinated and kill themselves off" is that they endanger people that are not able to be vaccinated... like infants too young and the rare case of someone with a medical issue that makes it dangerous to vaccinate. The second scenario I believe is rare and only pertains to children that are recovering from cancer and similar possibly fatal diseases, but the first one is very common because it is literally every infant. Like the child in the link I just shared (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ) A child can be exposed to it even if the parents are pro-vaccination. All it takes is one dumbass, moronic, anti-vaxxer to fuck things up for the innocent families around them.
I know, and that's part of what makes it so infuriating. My step-father thinks vaccinations are another one of those "my body, my choice" issues. It took a lot of restraint to keep me from telling him to go fuck himself.
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Online PickelledEggs

Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2015, 04:59:03 PM »
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I know, and that's part of what makes it so infuriating. My step-father thinks vaccinations are another one of those "my body, my choice" issues. It took a lot of restraint to keep me from telling him to go fuck himself.
Plus, in addition to how it's not "my body, my choice" it's also child abuse.

Ask your dad if when you were a toddler, he would willingly leave you with a complete stranger in the park. Then ask him why not? Then ask him if he would be OK with other parents leaving their toddlers with complete strangers in the park.

See if he gets the connection.

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2015, 05:01:14 PM »
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Plus, in addition to how it's not "my body, my choice" it's also child abuse.

Ask your dad if when you were a toddler, he would willingly leave you with a complete stranger in the park. Then ask him why not? Then ask him if he would be OK with other parents leaving their toddlers with complete strangers in the park.

See if he gets the connection.
STEP-father. My biological father is much more sensible. Although I will be sure and ask him a similar question about his daughter.
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Offline Hydra009

Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2015, 05:01:34 PM »
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I'd really like to compare and contrast the health policies of the relatively clean countries with the really dirty ones.  Because there are lots of really wealthy countries with lots of outbreaks and some really poor countries with few outbreaks.

Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2015, 05:06:48 PM »
Yes, my husband also just says let them earn their Darwin Awards and die off.  The problem is, THEY aren't the ones dying.  First, it is their children, who might yet grow up to be more intelligent than their parents.  Second, for the most part, it really isn't their kids that die.  They get the measles or whooping cough and recover, but they spread it to a baby, like the one linked up there (jeeze, that post about made me cry), and to older people, and people who have cancer and are on chemo and have immune issues, and THOSE people are the ones that die.

I'm completely 100% in favor of forced vaccinations, just like we make people wear helmets and seatbelts and stopped them from smoking in public places, we need to force this issue, because as this article explains, NOTHING CHANGES THEIR MINDS:

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Reason just makes them shrug (Like Christians going LALALA with their fingers in their ears), trying to scare them or make them sympathetic with pictures of dead babies or stories of heartbreak from children lost to preventable disease actually REAINFORCES their beliefs that vaccines are a trick and the government is poisoning us with them, or whatever crazy shit their particular brand of anti-vax is.  The only way we will get our number back up is with laws that force the issue.  Kid not vaccinated on schedule without good doctor approved reasons?  Kid not allowed in public schools or doctors offices.  The end.


One of the people I was having this discussion with, a supposed secular humanist, actually said "Herd immunity is just a theory".  FFS, sound familiar????
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.  LLAP"
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Offline dtq123

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Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2015, 05:49:03 PM »
Memes explain all.
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Offline Mermaid

Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2015, 07:31:37 PM »
It bothers me enough that people don't vaccinate their kids. Whatever. It's a sign of complacency, which, in turn, is due to the success of vaccines in preventing infectious diseases, which USED to be the leading cause of death. It is a symptom of our own success that is probably cyclical in nature.

What REALLY puts sand in my vagina, however, is when people perpetuate absolute falsehoods and state these as facts. ARGH. People are SO FUCKING STUPID, and the internet has only enabled and promoted this stupidity. Uninformed, ludicrous statements are an everyday occurrence due to social media. Why do people have such a propensity to believe any ridiculous lie they read on the internet rather than believing plausible facts?! Is it more fun to be contrarian? Is it a primal fear of being duped? I think it bothers me so much because I work for a pharmaceutical company, and I have seen with my own two eyes how these lies and completely false conclusions (such as a vaccine gave my kid epilepsy) grow legs and cause very real damage. I resent the shit out of it because of the assumption that people who work for these companies have no ethics whatsoever. HELLO! Scientists get cancer too.
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Offline stromboli

Re: Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2015, 07:46:12 PM »
Hey if Rick Perry thinks you have the right not to vax,that pretty much proves it is stupid. He is the spokesperson for derp in our nation.
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