Author Topic: Anyone else have a similar experience?  (Read 7147 times)

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2015, 09:16:31 PM »
I will give you ONE point. Simultaneous causality could  be conceivable under a tenseless universe, but there is no reason to think such causality is possible. It also runs into the problem that things never actually begin or end if tensed facts do not exist, so it still cannot exactly explain the "start" of the universe
"My only agenda, if one can call it that, is the pursuit of truth" ~AoSS

Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2015, 09:31:59 PM »
A tensed fact is a tenseless fact lacking its proper context. Ergo, tensed facts do not exist, per se.

The only time we know of is the time of the universe. This time cannot exist without the universe itself existing. Ergo, the universe cannot be caused into existence with respect to the only time that is known about. The only time it may be said to have such a cause is some exo-time that is completely unevidenced.
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Offline stromboli

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2015, 09:49:03 PM »
Tensed facts? Uh, yeah.  :think: Whatever.

Bottom line is this. Either there is a god (choose one of thousands) or not. God is supernatural and therefore beyond human comprehension. Anything that is describable or quantifiable is in the natural world, and hence not a god or godly. No evidence either directly observable or implied proves the existence of a god. All the so-called actions or attributes of god do not work; prayer, miracles, faith healing or whatever. consider the following:


Essentially the same can be said about any other aspect of god. Absence of any applicable evidence by default can be considered as lack of a god. If you believe you believe by faith in a contradictory being that lives outside of time yet operates within the natural world, supposedly interacts with humans without leaving any real clues, and in truth can only be believed by faith alone, and no other method.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 09:53:00 PM by stromboli »
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Offline Solitary

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2015, 11:31:35 PM »
Why is it assumed that space-time, particles and energy are not eternal with no beginning or end? Even space itself has particles, as well as energy. Perpetual machines are impossible, and yet that is exactly what an atom is. The whole universe is an emerging property of energy and space-time. Time is an illusion, but a very persistent one. Any motion that repeats itself is a clock, so movement is the measure of time, and time is a measurement of motion. If nothing moved there would be no time, like at the Big Bang. But wait, that was all about motion in a nut shell. It still didn't come from nothing, anymore than a balloon being blown up. Philosophy asks questions it can't answer because there are no answers, because philosophy is imaginary like God. It's based on black and white thinking because that is how our minds work in the world we live in. Good and bad, up and down, male and female, load and quiet, left and right, dumb and smart, ugly and beautiful, hard and soft, because that is how we experience the world with our senses. And final, alive and dead.  :eek: :shifty: :fU: :angel: :cool: Solitary
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Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2015, 01:16:53 PM »
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Also, how is P2 a false dichotomy? Causality requires tensed facts.

Kinda makes you wonder how time proceeded before we invented grammar!
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Offline Sal1981

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2015, 02:56:16 PM »
It's ordinary for me to have doubts about my convictions, but as so far as thinking that the Christian god (of my upbringing) is real? No.

I have often the thought of "there must be more than this", of course, but I always fall back to the default: If there's no corroborative evidence for it, I won't believe it. I.e. someone other than me has the same evidence that I have, I won't give it a second thought.

Now, is there a god? I don't know, and as along as I remain unconvinced from the available evidence, I will remain an atheist.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2015, 03:04:28 PM »
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Kinda makes you wonder how time proceeded before we invented grammar!

Just like gravity didn't exist until there was a word for it!
"My only agenda, if one can call it that, is the pursuit of truth" ~AoSS

Offline aitm

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2015, 03:24:21 PM »
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Just like gravity didn't exist until there was a word for it!
HEY! Gravity is just a theory you know!!
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Bong

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2015, 06:41:34 PM »
Same for me. Right now Im Atheist. Long back Muslim and other day agnostic. Lol
I was a Muslim once. Then I started to ask questions.
And found out that religions and all these craps are fake.
Omnipotence paradox to start with.

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2015, 11:27:51 AM »
Many great replies, thanks again.

One thing that has always been at the root of my "problem" is the origin of the universe. To me personally, solving this equation is the truest and most final answer. Since we as humans are programmed to comprehend beginnings and ends, we cannot wrap our brains around this concept. Even science is somewhat murky on it.

Every time I begin thinking about who or what started the universe, I immediately start thinking -- "what began the thing that began the universe?" -- and I get throw into this endless loop of mindfuckery. It really is a vicious circle, isn't it? Butterflies attack my stomach as if I'm ready to plunge downwards on an endless rollercoaster and my mind is blown to the degree that I may as well be an infant again. I can't carry on examining this question. I almost feel ill. Why do I react this way? No clue. Sometimes I get fed up and just say "fuck it, there MUST BE some sort of intelligent designer!"; I insist that it's the only way to reconcile the issue. As I type this now I am in the headspace that makes me wonder if there is some omnipotent (a loaded word and concept, I know) power, not necessarily God or some other intelligent designer, but a force that we just can't comprehend because it's not knowable to us. But that's physics, isn't it (I can hear me Christian friends yelling: "No! It's God!")? I'm sure sometime next week I'll be back to thinking that everything is absolutely fucking random, not real and NOTHING. :surprised:

Anyway, you can see that I'm clearly fucking confused. That's really the main problem I have, and sadly it's something I don't think we humans will ever be able to comprehend. The point is that this question doesn't resolve anything for me; instead it fuels both sides of the argument. I remember my Christian friends swearing that this is definitive proof that there is a God while my staunch atheist friends claimed the exact opposite. My Christian friends say that God has no beginning or end, He just is, and we cannot comprehend this because we are merely human. I must admit that as far as a cozy and neat explanation, I've always liked this. It sounds and feels a lot better than the scientific explanations. They always made me feel cold and depressed. But whatever the truth is, it doesn't matter how it makes me feel. It matters if it's true. But what is really true?

What started it all? What was the beginning? What came before the beginning? Before that? It's incomprehensible and a mindfuck of the highest order!  :eyes: :rotflmao:
But I suppose that's why I am neither a believer nor a non-believer. I'm in the middle, at times leaning to one side over the other...

Offline the_antithesis

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2015, 11:42:58 AM »
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Okay, I could drop the point, but how many theists do you think will try and weasel their way out of causality by claiming that creation does not necessarily mean a cause?

Zero.

Literally. I have never seen theists try to argue against causality like that. They just special plead that their god does not require a cause as a solution to the infinite regress of causes. You have seen this? I am surprised.

Frankly, your argument would be more compelling if you were talking about argle bargle bum fluff instead of "tensed facts." The average person will get confused and lose interest before you even explain your terms. Those with nothing better to do but continue to listen to you will think you're stupid.

There are no tense facts? Who is this idiot. Of course there are tense facts Before I stared listening to this guy, I was bored. Now after listening to him, I am filled with regret. And this shithead is telling me there is no before and after. What nonsense! I hope his parents spent all their money on his education because they deserve to be poor.

Re: Anyone else have a similar experience?
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2015, 08:22:29 PM »
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Religion is about four things: fear, guilt, condemnation and judgment.

And playing the victim when people start making fun of you for it.

My journey was fairly standard. Christian (but "lukewarm" like most teenagers) to agnostic to atheist.

For, it started off as indignation that these guys would say "this is absolutely how the afterlife is going to be" and you are going to be punished forever if you don't think like me.

Over time, it went from indignation to apathy. I don't know if it's the same for everyone, but it's the same for me. Nearly a decade has gone by for me since losing my religion and you really don't care where someone thinks you are going when you die or whether you deserve it for not having their religion.
It took science to do what people imagine God can do.
--ApostateLois

"The closer you are to God the further you are from the truth."
--St Giordano

 

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