"Rape pregnancies are rare"

[Nonsensei]

Don't forget that they are also implying that women who get pregnant from rape also kind of really wanted it.

I think they want to convey that impression, but anyone with half-a-brain can see that the alleged biological refusal is not a reflection of conscious desire.

It's quite the leap to go from "her body rejects rape-seed" to "her mind welcomed violation".

Not really. Notice the key word in the statement is trauma. The logic is as follows:

1) Rape is traumatic.
2) Trauma prevents pregnancy.
3) If she got pregnant there was no trauma.
4) If there was no trauma then she wanted it.
5) If she wanted it, it wasn't rape.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Don't forget that they are also implying that women who get pregnant from rape also kind of really wanted it.

I think they want to convey that impression, but anyone with half-a-brain can see that the alleged biological refusal is not a reflection of conscious desire.

It's quite the leap to go from "her body rejects rape-seed" to "her mind welcomed violation".

Not really. Notice the key word in the statement is trauma. The logic is as follows:

1) Rape is traumatic.
2) Trauma prevents pregnancy.
3) If she got pregnant there was no trauma.
4) If there was no trauma then she wanted it.
5) If she wanted it, it wasn't rape.

Step four is where you'll find your major problem.

[Nonsensei]

Step four is where you'll find your major problem.

No, my problem is with step 2.

This isn't a course of logic for you and me. Its for people who accept step 4 as being obviously true.

[Mermaid]

I'd say 2, 3, 4 and 5 are all major problems.

[Nonsensei]

I'd say 2, 3, 4 and 5 are all major problems.

5? really?

[Mermaid]

I'd say 2, 3, 4 and 5 are all major problems.

5? really?

The context is a woman says she was raped. If you tell her she wanted it that doesn't make it true.

I am not making any other claims.

[Shiranu]

I think I have a solution... Republicans... Don't fucking talk about rape. Just stop. All you are doing is digging that hole deeper.

[kilodelta]

"Rape pregnancies are rare" when a man is the victim.

[Thumpalumpacus]

This isn't a course of logic for you and me. Its for people who accept step 4 as being obviously true.

Something tells me there's no one here fitting that description, so I'll stay with my point, which is that assuming a woman's state of desire based upon no mental trauma being present is a non sequitur.  Most people aren't emotionally traumatized by the common cold, but it doesn't follow that they seek to come down with it.

There's no point to addressing the rest of the nonsense, on that basis alone.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think I have a solution... Republicans... Don't fucking talk about rape. Just stop. All you are doing is digging that hole deeper.

Or, better yet, start thinking about it for what it is, an act of violence.

[Aroura33]

I admit I don't which much news, so I may have missed some, but can you give me a single example of a democratic leader saying they would like to outlaw ALL guns?  Because I've never heard a single one say any such thing.  

Sure, Dianne Feinstein said that she'd ban 'em all if she could.

So, one person.  Good to know.

Firstly, you're misstating the position they're arguing, which gives evidence to your own bias, because they're not arguing that rape is "legitimate".    Secondly, the actual position, that "conception is less likely to arise from rape" has only to my knowledge been asserted by a couple of Republicans.  What do you mean by "keeps coming up"?  How are you not spinning your argument, or loading your rhetoric?

I don't know who you mean by "they", but Tod Akin said:

If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down

So what I was talking about was how it has been said, if only by one republican, that legitimate rapes DO NOT cause pregnancies.  So yeah, one of "them" did talk about legitimate rape, it IS a position that was argued, and you seemed to have misunderstood what I was referring to.

And yes, their position on women's rights, rape, abortion, etc, all keeps coming up.  138 Republicans just voted AGAINST renewing the Violence Against Women Act.  Not a single Democrat voted against it. It isn't me who has the bias. (I don't mean you, I mean them).  Certainly, it isn't ALL of them, nor have I said that, but it does appear to be a prevalent attitude.

Also, I don't know what bias I might have that you mean.  I am not a Democrat, and I find many of their politicians to be equally corrupt as Republicans.  However, at least they aren't out in force AGAINST women's rights.  I'm not spinning it, it's just a fact that a majority of Republicans are fighting hard to pass laws that are harmful to and aimed at oppressing women.

If you think they really think it's about the babies, then they wouldn't also be fighting against medical contraception coverage.  And also fighting to make sure those babies, once born, don't get get any government aid if the need it.

(If I have a bias, perhaps it is from the female perspective, but it isn't from the democratic one you assumed).

[Thumpalumpacus]

So, one person.  Good to know.

That is exactly my point.  We have two Republicans on the record saying this crap, and you're acting as if all Republicans think it.

Somehow, the extra Republican makes the sample size more apt?

So what I was talking about was how it has been said, if only by one republican, that legitimate rapes DO NOT cause pregnancies.  So yeah, one of "them" did talk about legitimate rape, it IS a position that was argued, and you seemed to have misunderstood what I was referring to.

No, I didn't.  I disagreed with your insinuation that that strain of thought is shared by the majority of Republicans.

And yes, their position on women's rights, rape, abortion, etc, all keeps coming up.  138 Republicans just voted AGAINST renewing the Violence Against Women Act.  Not a single Democrat voted against it. It isn't me who has the bias. (I don't mean you, I mean them).  Certainly, it isn't ALL of them, nor have I said that, but it does appear to be a prevalent attitude.

That is not the same as sharing the view that a woman's body has ways of shutting off pregnancy arising from rape, which renders this point a red herring.  Additionally, because no one here, least of all me, has argued that the Republicans are concerned with defending women's rights, this is also a strawman.

If you think they really think it's about the babies, then they wouldn't also be fighting against medical contraception coverage.  And also fighting to make sure those babies, once born, don't get get any government aid if the need it.

(If I have a bias, perhaps it is from the female perspective, but it isn't from the democratic one you assumed).

I don't think that.  As noted above, I think their approach to women's rights is based upon their desire to maintain gender relations as closely as possible to pre-liberation norms.    I reject, for that matter, the idea that they care about the baby at all.  But that doesn't mean that what you wrote ("Whereas this Republican/legitimate rape thing keeps coming up") is accurate (the Republicans I know don't want to legitimize rape), and that crass generalization is what I was taking issue with, not the other views that you seem intent upon bundling up and loading onto my point.  

As far as your bias, I think it's telling that you regard two Republican speakers as grounds for a broad generalization, but one Democratic speaker as being an insufficient sample (as implied by the mockery with which you opened your last post).  I also think that it's causing you to misread me here, because I'm not defending the point the speaker put forth, which is indeed absolutely stupid.  I'm simply saying that him, and one other speaker, do not and can not speak for all Republicans.  To imply that they can and do is not supported.

[Poison Tree]

While I will not pretend that Democrats don't say stupid things about rape (one in Colorado did just recently) let us not pretend that this is just two Republicans saying this kind of thing.

Multiple Republicans have claimed few, "one in millions and millions and millions,"pregnancies result from (true) rape. We've had Republicans qualify only some rapes as "legitimate," "honest", "emergency", or "forcible". We've had them say that some women "rape so easily" and women should "just relax and enjoy" rape. They've said rape is similar to having a baby out of wedlock and car theft. They've said women reporting rapes need counselors to ask if it wasn't really consensual sex (otherwise women will get away with claiming rape as an excuse to get an abortion) and women claiming to be raped have "buyers remorse". Plenty of them are trying to force invasive medical procedures on women who seek abortions, even after rape. Some have tried to criminalize abortions after rape as evidence tampering. We've seen a state legislator say that the reason an 11 year old was gang raped was her choice of clothing (but don't worry, school uniforms will stop future rapes). Republican legislators have attempted to lower and even eliminate punishment for marital-rape. Hell, their last VP nominee referred to rape as a "method of conception", co-sponsored Tod Akin's (of "legitimate rape fame") bill defining "forcible" and has now introduced a bill which, if it were to magically become law and constitutional, would potentially allow rapists to sue their victims to prevent abortions.

And what happens to Republicans who make these comments? Nothing, except in cases of extraordinary outrage and slim hope of winning (re)election, anyway.  Even Tod Akin got back much of the support he initially lost once it looked like he still had a chance of winning.

[leo]

"Rape pregnancies are rare" when a man is the victim.

Some people say women raping men is not possible .

[leo]

"Rape pregnancies are rare" when a man is the victim.

Some people say women raping men is not possible .

Six Women Rape Man To Death In Nigeria: Uroko Onoka, Wealthy Nigerian In Bentue State, Killed By His Six Wives

//http://www.ibtimes.com/six-women-rape-man-death-nigeria-uroko-onoka-wealthy-nigerian-bentue-state-killed-his-six-wives

//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/01/women-raping-men-a-surviv_n_2224204.html

There are other cases. I remember years ago Times magazine made a file on this.

Wow raped by 6 women .  :shock: