"I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."

Started by Aletheia, December 04, 2014, 03:54:27 AM

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Munch

Quote from: Cavebear on December 02, 2016, 06:39:06 AM
I think I will pass on that link, LOL!  But whatever suits you is fine.

its basically a video of this guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMdgTukCgAI
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Cavebear

Quote from: Munch on December 02, 2016, 07:31:55 AM
its basically a video of this guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMdgTukCgAI

Looks like someone I would want backing me up in a bar fight.  But that would assume I was ever in a bar...  And I wouldn't get near one.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Aletheia

Quote from: Feral Atheist on October 13, 2016, 11:03:12 AM
The OP "believes" it is a choice.... OK, but like many other things that is only a belief.

People believe in all sorts of things.... there are thousands of gods people believe in... children believe in Santa, Tooth Fairy, and monsters under the bed.  People believe in creation, Noah's Ark, the Illuminati, that the moon landing was faked, UFO's, ghosts, demons, big foot, leprechauns and millions of other nonsense things, all without fact and often counter to fact.

The OP doesn't believe it's a choice, rather I was discussing a conversation I had with those who made the assumption that it was a choice, when in reality a person has no say in their sexual orientation.

My stance is, and has always been, that sexual orientation is an emergent property based on our biology, and we are completely unable to control it. All anyone can do is suppress the expression of sexual preferences, and even then, that can have some devastating consequences.

The only part the jury is really out on this issue is when sexual orientation begins to manifest in a human being. Infancy? Childhood? Adolescence? Was it written in our genes from the beginning? The sooner we find these answers, the more we can learn about ourselves as species and the sooner we can put to rest the idea that sexual orientation is a choice, lifestyle, or whatever else people want to call it these days.
Quote from: Jakenessif you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.

Blackleaf

Quote from: Aletheia on December 03, 2016, 01:06:46 AM
The OP doesn't believe it's a choice, rather I was discussing a conversation I had with those who made the assumption that it was a choice, when in reality a person has no say in their sexual orientation.

My stance is, and has always been, that sexual orientation is an emergent property based on our biology, and we are completely unable to control it. All anyone can do is suppress the expression of sexual preferences, and even then, that can have some devastating consequences.

The only part the jury is really out on this issue is when sexual orientation begins to manifest in a human being. Infancy? Childhood? Adolescence? Was it written in our genes from the beginning? The sooner we find these answers, the more we can learn about ourselves as species and the sooner we can put to rest the idea that sexual orientation is a choice, lifestyle, or whatever else people want to call it these days.

The problem is that theists (particularly Christians and Muslims) don't want to learn. Many of them still believe that the Earth is a few thousand years old.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Munch

Quote from: Blackleaf on December 05, 2016, 10:51:20 AM
The problem is that theists (particularly Christians and Muslims) don't want to learn. Many of them still believe that the Earth is a few thousand years old.

after watching the making of gods not dead, aside from it being the creepiest making of documentary I've seen, its also clear Christians like those that made the movie or starred in it don't perceive reality, or just flat out lie while convincing themselves its the truth, such as saying to kevin sorbo "you played the most accurate portrayal of an atheist I've ever seen", yeah, that killed a few brain cells just hearing it.
Same goes for religious people who regard gays in the same light, they convince themselves all gays are demon spawn, when the irony is I could lump every christian and muslim on an idea who thinks this about gays, while they could not manage more then a tiny percent of gays who were anything like they claim.
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Cavebear

Quote from: Blackleaf on December 05, 2016, 10:51:20 AM
The problem is that theists (particularly Christians and Muslims) don't want to learn. Many of them still believe that the Earth is a few thousand years old.

I would reverse the premise.  It isn't that Christians and Muslims don't want to learn, it is that those who don't learn BECOME Christians and Muslims (and whatevers).  Ignorance comes first, religion follows the ignorance...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Blackleaf

Quote from: Cavebear on January 01, 2017, 04:20:53 AM
I would reverse the premise.  It isn't that Christians and Muslims don't want to learn, it is that those who don't learn BECOME Christians and Muslims (and whatevers).  Ignorance comes first, religion follows the ignorance...

Ignorance is also what keeps them in religion. Why do you think they feel the need to gather one or more times a week to sing songs and listen to a sermon? It's to reinforce their ridiculous ideas and wash away any doubts. They are programmed to think certain ways, and are often equipped with arguments that seem flawless to them, but never work in the real world. Knowledge is the enemy of religion. If they allow themselves to think outside of their box, their programming falls apart.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Munch

Quote from: Blackleaf on January 01, 2017, 10:00:08 AM
Ignorance is also what keeps them in religion. Why do you think they feel the need to gather one or more times a week to sing songs and listen to a sermon? It's to reinforce their ridiculous ideas and wash away any doubts. They are programmed to think certain ways, and are often equipped with arguments that seem flawless to them, but never work in the real world. Knowledge is the enemy of religion. If they allow themselves to think outside of their box, their programming falls apart.

Its also why they have confession boxes, so its followers start to actually wake up to the idea that maybe what there in following is crap, like the growth of awareness in their minds, the priest in the confession box can hammer them back in with their dogma and keep them from realizing that their in a cult.
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Baruch

Quote from: Blackleaf on January 01, 2017, 10:00:08 AM
Ignorance is also what keeps them in religion. Why do you think they feel the need to gather one or more times a week to sing songs and listen to a sermon? It's to reinforce their ridiculous ideas and wash away any doubts. They are programmed to think certain ways, and are often equipped with arguments that seem flawless to them, but never work in the real world. Knowledge is the enemy of religion. If they allow themselves to think outside of their box, their programming falls apart.

Operative reinforcement is both very old and very new.  It is the basis of "habit".  Most people don't think ... a fact, don't know why.  I always liked thinking.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Munch on January 01, 2017, 10:32:44 AM
Its also why they have confession boxes, so its followers start to actually wake up to the idea that maybe what there in following is crap, like the growth of awareness in their minds, the priest in the confession box can hammer them back in with their dogma and keep them from realizing that their in a cult.

This is also how old time domestic intel worked, they couldn't hack your Facebook account.  The priest told the king what the king needed to know.  Your confession was private and secret .. sure.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Munch

Quote from: Baruch on January 01, 2017, 12:14:37 PM
This is also how old time domestic intel worked, they couldn't hack your Facebook account.  The priest told the king what the king needed to know.  Your confession was private and secret .. sure.

Ah yes. Though there are no kings in America, but did they report to the president? :)
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Baruch

Quote from: Munch on January 01, 2017, 12:42:54 PM
Ah yes. Though there are no kings in America, but did they report to the president? :)

No, to the Vatican ... and then the Pope reports to his counterparts at the Bilderberger meeting.  Not efficient communication to be sure, but that is stove-pipe organization for you.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Munch

Quote from: Baruch on January 01, 2017, 03:47:43 PM
No, to the Vatican ... and then the Pope reports to his counterparts at the Bilderberger meeting.  Not efficient communication to be sure, but that is stove-pipe organization for you.

And that was when Isambard Kingdom Brunel invented a steam powered anti Vatican assault weapon.

 
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Baruch

Quote from: Munch on January 01, 2017, 04:28:11 PM
And that was when Isambard Kingdom Brunel invented a steam powered anti Vatican assault weapon.



I like Steampunk as an idea.  As a computer guy I would want to read ...
https://www.amazon.com/Difference-Engine-William-Gibson/dp/0440423627
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

OldFaithful

No is not a choice. Good God provide free will in many aspect. But sexual is inherit together with life actions/education/raised by parents or figures of authorities.