"I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."

Started by Aletheia, December 04, 2014, 03:54:27 AM

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Mike Cl

Quote from: Dionysiou on February 20, 2016, 12:36:55 AM
Everyone's an expert right. Why are you even making a fuss? Get on with your life.
You seem to think you are, indeed, an expert.  You are the one spewing your tripe all over this thread.  My life?  Coming along just fine, thank you. 

Since you seem intent upon putting forth your baseless crap, I thought I'd respond.  Yeah, I know it is useless since you are hooked on the religious way of viewing the world---based on belief and with no regard for any sort of facts or rational thinking.  Sadly, your getting a life seems beyond your grasp.  As I said before, I hope you can achieve a healthy brain before you die.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

RCnal

I think (because I have absolutely no scientific basis for this opinion) homosexuality is just another random mutation, or just anomaly in the circle of life. There are 7 billion of us on this rock. To think that every one of use will be born with the same wiring is just crazy. Kids are born with physical defects and differences all the time. It's completely random. You don't find too many things that happen that also doesn't occur in a few thousand other people.
Is it completely out of the realm of possibility that someone is born one gender but their wiring gets crossed and they are attracted to the same gender? Is it crazy to think that some out of the billions of births in history that some peoples brains are wired one way for one gender but their physical appearance comes out another? Every mammalian species exhibits homosexuality. Why on earth would we feel we are going to be any different?!
You have the right to believe whatever you like. However, the once you publicize it as fact, you will have to answer a few questions.

I hope Jenny McCarthy gets small pox
Check out my thoughts at knowledgeoverego.blogspot.ca

stromboli

The jury is still out as to the ultimate cause, but no doubt there is a genetic or other factor involved. My (gay) friend told me he was aware of his sexuality at age 12. Many instances I'm familiar with are similar. There are too many examples of young men or women raised in households with good parenting and everything that meets what we consider fine role models still discover they are gay. It isn't environmental or learned, no matter what the conservatives say.

Blackleaf

Quote from: stromboli on April 07, 2016, 12:37:32 PM
The jury is still out as to the ultimate cause, but no doubt there is a genetic or other factor involved. My (gay) friend told me he was aware of his sexuality at age 12. Many instances I'm familiar with are similar. There are too many examples of young men or women raised in households with good parenting and everything that meets what we consider fine role models still discover they are gay. It isn't environmental or learned, no matter what the conservatives say.

Many conditions and behaviors in psychology are not fully explainable by biology or environmental factors alone. There's most often an interaction between the two. It is true, however, that primary care givers who are gay are not any more likely to have gay children. So it's neither infectious or hereditary.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

widdershins

Quote from: stromboli on April 07, 2016, 12:37:32 PM
The jury is still out as to the ultimate cause, but no doubt there is a genetic or other factor involved. My (gay) friend told me he was aware of his sexuality at age 12. Many instances I'm familiar with are similar. There are too many examples of young men or women raised in households with good parenting and everything that meets what we consider fine role models still discover they are gay. It isn't environmental or learned, no matter what the conservatives say.
My nephew told me the same thing.  About 12 was when he realized.  My JW friend tried to tell me that "something" must have happened to him to turn him gay.  Because, you know, if one gay guy says he was molested by a guy when he was young then that's not only the cause of him being gay, it's the cause of all gayness everywhere.  Of course he made this "diagnosis" never having actually met my nephew and it is absolutely not what happened.  He's just gay.  There really is no more to the story.  Well, unless you want to get into the story about how that has affected him negatively his whole life, how half the family won't talk to him because we're a bunch of fucking rednecks (my own neck far less red than much of my family, thankfully), how his mom checked herself into a psych ward when he came out...but that's really the result of being gay in an society that didn't accept it, nothing to do with why he's gay.
This sentence is a lie...

AkiraTheFighter

People like this make me sick. I mean yeah it's your opinion and you have the right to it. But as you said in your reply to that person, why would anybody chose such a hard life? As both a Homosexual and an Atheist I literally can not be 100% myself in my my country or I'll get into serious trouble.

Divina

Research shows otherwise. However, I really don't give a damn if it is, or isn't. It still dosent make it wrong.

trdsf

Quote from: Blackleaf on April 07, 2016, 06:40:58 PM
Many conditions and behaviors in psychology are not fully explainable by biology or environmental factors alone. There's most often an interaction between the two. It is true, however, that primary care givers who are gay are not any more likely to have gay children. So it's neither infectious or hereditary.
There is a definite hereditary part to homosexuality.  I expect it's either a recessive or an uncommon combination of genes that set the biological predisposition.

There are known genetic components, but no known genetic driver.  Markers include having a ring finger longer than the index finger, and having a parent with a gay sibling of the same gender, having several older siblings of the same gender, and the direction one's hair spirals out from the occiput.  I have the first two m'self -- there is most definitely a hereditary component.  On the flip side, my hair spirals in the more common clockwise direction, and I'm the oldest of three, no older siblings of any sort.  So there are multiple factors, but it's entirely erroneous to just flatly say that it's not hereditary.  Some part of it absolutely is.

The jury's still out on what the ultimate driver is.  It's certainly not choice.  I couldn't choose to be straight.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Bluewind

The OP had a beautiful reply to a difficult situation and so have the majority of people who has commented here (save those with occasional bouts of mental diarrhea). It's not easy being different and sometimes people fight against it. Nobody wants to be shunned or to become the thing we have all been told is wrong. Those of us raised in religious households fought against admitting we were atheists or agnostics because of how we w were raised and or environment. Those of us who live in a society and/or family where it is frowned upon or even criminal to have an identity other than cis gender attracted to opposite cis gender, but that is not the way the world or nature works. People can be born homosexual just as any other creature can be born homosexual. It's a fact. However, it's when we get into sexualities that aren't heterosexual/homosexual and non cis gender identities that things become even more complicated, especially when dealing with people who long to believe it's a choice.

First off, a few common definitions (there are many MANY more terms)
Bisexual: Willing to pair with both male and female. May or may not be more attracted to one gender than the other. May or may not be attracted to trans men/women. Often used as a catch all term for those that aren't heterosexual or homosexual as it is more common.
Polysexual: Willing to pair with most genders, but not necessarily all genders.
Pansexual: Willing to pair with people based off their personality with gender being secondary.
Queer: Originally a term for anyone in the LGBT+ community especially those that don't fall within a category very well. The author of the web comic Oh Joy Sex Toy is an example (she's a female who originally identified as a lesbian but married a man, is attracted to both, and occasionally soft packs). Unfortunately, it is now used as a slur or insult.
Cis gender: Male/female genitals match mental gender.
Trans gender: Genitals do not match mental gender. They may or may not go through hormone therapy or have surgery. Harmless drugs are often given to trans* teens to halt puberty to given them time to decide if it is right for them.
Intersex: Born with a mixture of male and female parts. Much more common than people realize as doctors often perform "gender normalizing" surgery on them when they are too young to remember. It is often only discovered upon autopsy (such as a man with overies).
Gender fluid: The gender they are (including mixtures of genders) depends on their mood and feelings that day.
Two Spirit: To feel like a combination of genders instead of strictly one gender.
Third Gender: To identity as a gender that is not male or female.
Genderless: To not have a gender.

Now, look at all of that. Look at just a few of a things that we as human being can define ourselves as. Is it any wonder there are people out there claiming to be "reformed" homosexuals?

We long to not be the thing we are taught is wrong, incorrect, immoral, and unnatural. We have a binary world drilled into our heads until we believe there is only two ways to be: straight or gay, cis gender or transgender, theist or anti-theist... right and wrong. The truth is there are plenty of shades of gray between them and combinations of them and things that don't really fall under either! And there they are, grasping as straws, longing to not be sinners or wrong or unnatural when they discover they do not fit so neatly into the category they thought they did and instead of embracing the gray, they run screaming and crying back into the arms of the place they think they are supposed to be. We can't be angry at them for their flawed logic that boarders on the delusional because of their deep denial of their true self; we can only pity them and try to show through our own actions that we are good, logical people who deserve to be treated with respect, dignity, and equality.

As a side note, I often refer to myself as bisexual for convenience, but I align more with polysexual as I'm attracted to more than just male and female, but I still notice gender. This does not make me selfish, attracted to everybody (I have preferences just like everybody else), a whore, or polyamorus.

There is a chance I could be intersex as I had to have surgery as a baby and again as a teen, have a scar on my labia, and am missing my labia minora. I act like a foul mouth cross between male and female most of the time, but I'm happy to have my vagina which works just fine, so regardless of what I was born as I feel like I identity mostly as female now. ;)
There is beauty in a finite life.

marom1963

#219
Quote from: aitm on December 04, 2014, 02:03:18 PM
Most straight people are simply ignorant, and as there are more of them the ignorance sometimes seems overwhelming, of course that is because it is. Straight people think its either "black or white". Most straights, being ignorant, are also unaware that anywhere from 1.5 to 2% of humanity is born androgynous, with both sex organs. Now to a reasonable person, this should suggest that as physical androgyny is very real, psychological androgyny should be equally possible. So that there should be a multitude of degrees to which any individual can find themselves attracted to either or both sexes. I have never been able to grasp what's hard about this to understand.
You're talking about people who fail to grasp this - if homosexuality is a choice ... then so is heterosexuality - and I think that one of these "it's a choice" people should take a hit for the team and become gay! Just choose to become gay to prove that it's a choice! Yeah - become gay for a minimum of 5 years.
OMNIA DEPENDET ...

Baruch

What you do with what you got ... is a choice (even if you are under some coercion or compulsion ... otherwise we can't find anyone liable for anything).  What you got isn't a choice.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

marom1963

Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2016, 10:53:49 PM
What you do with what you got ... is a choice (even if you are under some coercion or compulsion ... otherwise we can't find anyone liable for anything).  What you got isn't a choice.
And - so?  What, are gay people supposed to do w/o sex b/c it offends God? Then why did he make so many animals who have same-sex sex?
OMNIA DEPENDET ...

Baruch

Quote from: marom1963 on April 19, 2016, 05:00:47 AM
And - so?  What, are gay people supposed to do w/o sex b/c it offends God? Then why did he make so many animals who have same-sex sex?

Did I separate gay from straight friend?  Am I anti-sex?  I think people should rape road kill (animals only?).  But then I am accused of being a misanthrope.  Y'all have no idea.  There will eventually be a string here, with earnest arguing, when road kill rape is appropriate and when it is not.  SJW and MRA will take opposite sides.  Twisted cartoons for Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny will appear.  Bugs has appeared in drag in the past, so like a ho ... he has it coming.  Has nothing to do with G-d, has everything with behaving responsibly or otherwise.  99.9% of sexual irresponsibility is by straight folk.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Blackleaf

Quote from: trdsf on April 14, 2016, 10:20:25 PM
There is a definite hereditary part to homosexuality.  I expect it's either a recessive or an uncommon combination of genes that set the biological predisposition.

There are known genetic components, but no known genetic driver.  Markers include having a ring finger longer than the index finger, and having a parent with a gay sibling of the same gender, having several older siblings of the same gender, and the direction one's hair spirals out from the occiput.  I have the first two m'self -- there is most definitely a hereditary component.  On the flip side, my hair spirals in the more common clockwise direction, and I'm the oldest of three, no older siblings of any sort.  So there are multiple factors, but it's entirely erroneous to just flatly say that it's not hereditary.  Some part of it absolutely is.

The jury's still out on what the ultimate driver is.  It's certainly not choice.  I couldn't choose to be straight.

What I meant was that a gay person doesn't pass off their sexual orientation to their children. There seems to be a genetic component to practically everything, but it's complicated, and sometimes activated by the environment (such as the number of biologically related males in the home).

What I find really strange, though, is how a genetic component could exist when natural selection is involved. The only thing nature cares about is procreation. If a genetic feature doesn't help you have more babies, it usually gets weeded out, like when deep sea fish lost their eyes.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: Blackleaf on April 20, 2016, 01:59:29 AMWhat I find really strange, though, is how a genetic component could exist when natural selection is involved. The only thing nature cares about is procreation. If a genetic feature doesn't help you have more babies, it usually gets weeded out, like when deep sea fish lost their eyes.
This is one of my major sticking points with homosexuality. Since homosexuals generally aren't inclined to breed, genetic homosexuality should have died out already.

I'm more inclined to believe it happens at a higher level than that. Maybe a chromosomal thing, or something that happens in the womb. Still something you're born with, just not as a result of genetics.
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

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