My thoughts on 9/11

[FaithIsFilth]

I wouldn't put anything past our government after what they have done in the past.

I feel the same way. I'm not American though. Canadian, but I pretty much feel like we are one in the same as our PM is the US's lapdog, and we are becoming more and more like the US. We are about to lose our rights up here with our own patriot act, and only two of our soldiers had to die for it lol. Two soldiers died in attacks and this is our 9/11. It's unbelievable, and the people just go along with it and don't care.

Obama goes on tv after one guy who chose to go to a foreign country at war and take a risk gets beheaded and calls the beheader the face of pure evil, while he rains down bombs on little children, and is best friends with those in Saudi Arabia who behead plenty of people themselves. You can't take anything the government says seriously. Right after 9/11, they went on tv and said never in their wildest dreams could they have imagined an attack like this happening. It's BS lies like this and the lies that got the Iraq war started that make people so suspicious. Just tell me the God damn truth. Say, "Yes, we saw this type of an attack as a possibility, but it was only one of hundreds of possibilities". How am I supposed to trust anything the government tells me when over and over they insult our intelligence like this? Tell me you want to go to Iraq again to protect the oil and opium, and whatever other reasons there are. Be straight with me. At least ISIS is straight with the world and tells us exactly what they are about.

[Minimalist]

Well, I didn't claim I believe that is what happened. I didn't even claim that I think that happened. I said it's a suspicion. I don't accept claims without evidence, or I try not to at least. See my screen name.

I think it is very likely that the US wanted the 9/11 attacks to happen, and purposely didn't shoot down the planes so there could be maximum damage.

That is stated a bit more forcefully than a mere suspicion.  Don't get me wrong.  I think Dubya was the biggest fucking asshole to ever sit in the White House but a conspiracy that massive is beyond him.  To quote Bill Maher:  "The government can't plan conspiracies....the government can't deliver the mail."

Did they subsequently take advantage of 9-11?  They sure did.  But that's not the same thing.

[Green Bottle]

''Quote from FaithisFilth...
Don't know where this came from. Muslims are the best warriors on the Earth. The bravest. The most brutal. The most willing to die. The promise of a martyrs afterlife has a lot to do with building up their courage in battle.
Praising Islam

''Quote from FaithisFilth...
At least ISIS is straight with the world and tells us exactly what they are about.
Admiration for ISIS,

How low can you go  ?

[Hakurei Reimu]

There's a maxim: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence. The US government is in many ways designed to be at odds with itself, with departments with different agendas and procedures, each with a "turf" that it jealously guards. Even its core three branches (Judiciary, Executive, Legislative) are designed to be at odds with each other. The FAA and TSA, which are in charge of civilian air traffic, were not going to take one for the team and let civilian confidence in air safety be compromised without a fight. The City of New York was not going to let its most symbolic and important business center and tourist attraction be damaged without a fight, as they would have to foot the bill and suffer the loss of same. The Air Force was not going to simply swallow the damage to their reputation if they didn't get the authorization to shoot down those planes if there was a possibility that they could. Remember that while the military may be part of the Executive branch, and the POTUS is "in charge," its budget is decided by Congress.

It would take a very competent group of individuals to pull this off the way you imagine, to purposefully allow 9/11 to happen that way when the damage could have been mitigated. Bush & Co. are not that group.

[FaithIsFilth]

''Quote from FaithisFilth...
Don't know where this came from. Muslims are the best warriors on the Earth. The bravest. The most brutal. The most willing to die. The promise of a martyrs afterlife has a lot to do with building up their courage in battle.
Praising Islam

''Quote from FaithisFilth...
At least ISIS is straight with the world and tells us exactly what they are about.
Admiration for ISIS,

How low can you go  ?

Yes, I admire ISIS because I want the West to tell the truth as well. You got it.

Who is braver than them? I'm certainly not going to sit around calling them cowards while we, with our far superior technology, fly over them dropping bombs on children. They are tougher people, not needing the comforts we have in the West, willing to wait us out, willing to fight back and never quit because Allah has promised them victory, and they are going to be doing it for hundreds of years to come. They have balls. I am willing to give them that, and I will not buy into the propaganda that the Americans are the best at everything and the bravest. That doesn't mean I have to like it when they start cutting off people's heads.

[Solitary]

I think it is very likely that the US wanted the 9/11 attacks to happen, and purposely didn't shoot down the planes so there could be maximum damage.

That is stated a bit more forcefully than a mere suspicion.  Don't get me wrong.  I think Dubya was the biggest fucking asshole to ever sit in the White House but a conspiracy that massive is beyond him.  To quote Bill Maher:  "The government can't plan conspiracies....the government can't deliver the mail."

Did they subsequently take advantage of 9-11?  They sure did.  But that's not the same thing.

It is debatable that one plane was not shot down. As to what Bill Maher , who I respect said, it is just his opinion, and considering what Bush and his cohorts have accomplished before 911 and after, it is kind if silly for him to say that. Bill Maher also got in trouble for saying he thought the terrorist were braver than killing people from afar like we do.

[FaithIsFilth]

Yeah. There really is zero argument to be made for them not being tough. A great deal of them are raised up to love the idea of death. Even the mothers over there are tough as nails, and many of them cry tears of joy when they get word that their children have been martyred for the cause.

[Mermaid]

"People died. How dare you question the government? It's a slap in the face" isn't really helping here, I'm sorry to say.

don't put words in my mouth.

[kilodelta]

Don't know where this came from. Muslims are the best warriors on the Earth. The bravest. The most brutal. The most willing to die. The promise of a martyrs afterlife has a lot to do with building up their courage in battle.

It's not courage if one is not afraid of death. It's not bravery for those that embrace doom.

[pr126]

FaithIsFilth wrote:

Muslims are the best warriors on the Earth. The bravest. The most brutal. The most willing to die. The promise of a martyrs afterlife has a lot to do with building up their courage in battle.

So with this reasoning the 19 hijackers, various suicide bombers, indiscriminate murderers of random people in the name of Allah to be admired?
Doubleplus ungood.

[SGOS]

''Quote from FaithisFilth...
Don't know where this came from. Muslims are the best warriors on the Earth. The bravest. The most brutal. The most willing to die.

I'm not particularly impressed by "acts of bravery" that involve kidnapping unarmed journalists and mowing down peaceful villagers in the public square, all the while wearing masks.  This is brutal, but not brave.  When they go up against Western ground forces their bravery will be tested, but for now, I'd call them assholes, rather than brave warriors.

[FaithIsFilth]

FaithIsFilth wrote:

Muslims are the best warriors on the Earth. The bravest. The most brutal. The most willing to die. The promise of a martyrs afterlife has a lot to do with building up their courage in battle.

So with this reasoning the 19 hijackers, various suicide bombers, indiscriminate murderers of random people in the name of Allah to be admired?
Doubleplus ungood.

Good warrior does not mean good person. Genghis Khan was a great warrior, no? The better the warrior the worse the person. The greatest warriors throughout history were brutal and relentless, and the Muslims got that down. They are a very formidable opponent in these dumb wars we wage against them. Their brutality helps them keep their people in check. Step out of line and you lose a hand or get shot in the head (although I'm sure plenty of the Sunnis living there invite ISIS and Islamic Law with open arms, as they see them as better than the previous government that was treating them like shit because they are Sunnis and not Shiites). That doesn't mean I admire the Muslim fighters acts. I sure wouldn't want my government to shoot me in the head for stepping out of line or having the wrong beliefs.

I'm not particularly impressed by "acts of bravery" that involve kidnapping unarmed journalists and mowing down peaceful villagers in the public square, all the while wearing masks.  This is brutal, but not brave.  When they go up against Western ground forces their bravery will be tested, but for now, I'd call them assholes, rather than brave warriors.

Journalists that thought it through and decided they would take the chance to go to a foreign country at war and put their neck on the line. You know they don't want the kuffar there and they might chop off your head because other Westerners are bombing their children, but you decide to go anyways.

The Americans decided to start bombing Iraq again, and Syria while they knew there were hostages. Obama doesn't give a damn about those hostages. If he didn't start the bombing up again, those hostages would still have their heads right now. Obama cared about those hostages just as much as he cares about the children he bombs. Those hostages were nothing but collateral damage to Obama, in his new wars. If we in the West saw children around us being bombed, maybe that would turn us into monsters too and stuff like cutting off heads wouldn't be that big of a deal anymore.

Obviously not everything Muslim fighters do is brave. Given that they are extremely outnumbered, have no air force or navy, but went ahead and took over large parts of Iraq and Syria anyways, they are pretty damn brave. That's a hell of a challenge to take on with such a small army.

It's not courage if one is not afraid of death. It's not bravery for those that embrace doom.

Funny, because the definition of fearless is: without fear; bold or brave; intrepid. So yeah, if you're not afraid of death, that's the definition of bravery.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

If no fear of death in the face of battle is the definition of bravery then it also defines stupidity perfectly as well. The goal in battle is for your opponent to die, not yourself.

[pr126]

If no fear of death in the face of battle is the definition of bravery then it also defines stupidity perfectly as well. The goal in battle is for your opponent to die, not yourself.

But thre is the promised eternal celestial brothel waiting!
See Quran 9:111

Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

[SGOS]

The Americans decided to start bombing Iraq again, and Syria while they knew there were hostages. Obama doesn't give a damn about those hostages.

"Doesn't give a damn" sounds like an unnecessarily harsh criticism to me.  As you have already pointed out, journalists who place themselves in harms way understand the risks.  When they take such risks, they cannot expect the United States to put it's foreign policy on hold.

If he didn't start the bombing up again, those hostages would still have their heads right now.

It's not clear to me that this is a true statement.  I don't know that the jihadists would choose to leave Westerners alone under any circumstances.  If anything, it seems they are going out of their way to goad the West into further conflict, which I'm guessing will be the outcome of all this.