Author Topic: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work  (Read 2492 times)

Offline stromboli

Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« on: October 28, 2014, 09:58:39 PM »
AITM a couple of times has tried to come up with a statement that in a few paragraphs explains why atheists think the way they do. I think it is a good idea, though I don't know if we've accomplished that. I think it is worth trying, and I've worked on the idea for awhile. This may be a waste of time, but I think it's worth the effort. Anyway, this is my contribution:

Quote
"There are thousands of religions. Nearly all religions claim to be the only true one. If there is only one true religion, then all other religions are an invention of human, non-supernatural origin.

Even  though that "one true religion" is based on a non-quantifiable or describable supernatural power or god, in order to determine it to be true, there has to be some criteria to separate it from other religions and prove it to be true, or justify belief in it.We can verify that existence only by characteristics or demonstrable acts of that particular god; miracles, miraculous healings, other events not explainable in the natural world.

But since science and ever increasing knowledge have provided non-supernatural, explainable reasons for what was previously seen as miraculous, until phenomena occur that can only be explained as supernatural and attributable to only that specific god, no evidence of that specific god exists. Miraculous seeming claims or events by themselves DO NOT prove the existence of a specific god.

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. If there is no evidence a thing exists, we can assume that it doesn't. There is no more justification to assume there is one true religion than that all religions are inventions of the human mind."

If you disagree or think you can do better, by all means have at it. I'd like to see one concrete statement that covers the topic. I'm already pretty sure what your responses are going to be, based on past experience.

Offline Solitary

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2014, 12:27:50 PM »
Atheist question authority, theists don't!  :madu:
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2014, 01:03:02 PM »
 I'd contribute, but I'm afraid god will make a church bus back up over my balls in a very precarious position.. :eek: On the other hand perhaps I just don't really care.. :think:
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Offline aitm

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2014, 03:01:04 PM »
Atheism is simply, rejecting the unproven for that which is, accepting a scientific approach instead of a superstitious one. It is really more of a acknowledgment of the achievement of science rather than the denial of the gods... despite the definition.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 08:06:07 AM »
Every theist is actually more "atheist" than "theist". There are thousands more gods that they don't believe in versus the one that they do. I didn't choose to be an atheist, for me, there were no other choices. None.
Q for theists; how can there be freewill and miracles? And, how can prayer exist in an environment as regimented as "gods plan"?

"I'm a polyatheist, there are many gods I don't believe in." - Dan Fouts

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2014, 08:38:39 AM »
I kind of wish that the whole 'science' argument could be left out mainly because science itself doesn't care if there is or isn't a god or gods. For all the good that comes from science there is just as much bad.
Fukushima nuclear plant took lots of scientific research to develop and it's doing just peachy.. Right? The wonderful air in Port Arthur Texas is a direct result of lots of science. The internal combustion engine has undergone lots of scientific research and still to this day spews out some pretty nasty shit. Even medical research usually kills as many people as it cures. I'm not saying science is good or bad, but it'll never answer whether there is a god or not because the very concept of a god is within the human imagination, not in a test tube or classroom.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline SGOS

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 08:56:40 AM »
Most of my real life atheist friends are not big science people.  They just don't believe in gods.  In this forum, we often look to science to disprove Bible myths.  My real life atheist friends would not reject science for that purpose, but they treat science as mostly irrelevant to superstitious beliefs.  They simply do not rely on science to dispute the supernatural.  They don't believe in the supernatural, because they see it as silly.

It's odd that the friends of which I speak, don't discuss religion like we do in the forum.  They don't dissect it and look at it from all the different directions.  At most, they might roll their eyes, or simply say, "I think it's malarkey," and they seem satisfied with that.  I don't think they think about it much.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 09:16:24 AM »
Most of my real life atheist friends are not big science people.  They just don't believe in gods.  In this forum, we often look to science to disprove Bible myths.  My real life atheist friends would not reject science for that purpose, but they treat science as mostly irrelevant to superstitious beliefs.  They simply do not rely on science to dispute the supernatural.  They don't believe in the supernatural, because they see it as silly.

It's odd that the friends of which I speak, don't discuss religion like we do in the forum.  They don't dissect it and look at it from all the different directions.  At most, they might roll their eyes, or simply say, "I think it's malarkey," and they seem satisfied with that.  I don't think they think about it much.
I fit in that bunch pretty much.. I don't really come here to debate or learn some truth that's been missing from all of humanity for millennium.. I come for the entertainment value kind of like watching football. I don't really care who wins, but it's entertaining..
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline SGOS

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 09:51:12 AM »
I fit in that bunch pretty much.. I don't really come here to debate or learn some truth that's been missing from all of humanity for millennium.. I come for the entertainment value kind of like watching football. I don't really care who wins, but it's entertaining..
Many years ago, I attended an evening class that was centered around a series of "values exercises" or whatever you call those things that are supposed to make you more aware of your values and other people's values.  We had this little workbook, designed to make us think as we wrote answers to various questions.  And then in class, we would read our answers out loud.

There was one question that asked something like, "What religious or spiritual values are important to you?"  I was well on my way into agnosticism at that time of my life, but I got caught up in the "spiritual values" crap, and I wanted to be spiritual, because, well you know, it seemed like a good idea to be spiritual, even if you loathed going to church.  So I read some of my bla, bla, bla, whatever it was crap, and felt satisfied that I had managed to defend myself as a good person.  LOL

Well there was this other guy and his wife in the class.  I vaguely knew them.  He was a jock that taught at the local high school.  I thought he seemed like he might be taking the course just to keep up with his certification or something, and really didn't care that much about the course.  Anyway, he's reading his responses to the different values questions, and gets to the spirituality one that asked if he had any spiritual values, and he simply said, "Spiritual or religious values... ZIP," and without missing a beat he continued on with the next question on the list.

I was kind of shocked.  My, my, how callous and insensitive!  It's as if he was saying, "Fuck this stupid question," when in fact, what he did was simply answer it completely and succinctly.  There was no snarl of disapproval on his face.  He just answered the question.  When I thought about it more, I rather respected him for not making a big deal about it or going on with a bunch of "bla, bla, bla, whatever crap."

Years later, I found out he was a full blown atheist.  He just didn't make a big deal about it.  We were never friends.  We each had too many other things to do, but I think we could have been friends had we bothered to try being friends.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 10:17:11 AM »
Well we know as fact cheap dollar store wind chimes and tattoos of Chinese characters are spiritual, but the rest of it is bunk. :lol:
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline SGOS

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2014, 10:31:14 AM »
Lighting candles!  Don't forget about lighting candles.  Something happens.  I'm not sure what, but it's spiritual.

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2014, 11:28:54 AM »
It's ok.  I really do like that there would be a summary of why most people are atheist that would combat many of the usual misconceptions.     No evidence, no belief. 
Please don't take anything I say seriously.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2014, 12:11:15 PM »
Lighting candles!  Don't forget about lighting candles.  Something happens.  I'm not sure what, but it's spiritual.
That's kind of along the lines of inhaling solvents isn't it?
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline Zutara

Re: Statement on atheism-agree, disagree, needs work
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2014, 06:23:23 PM »
Quote
"Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. If there is no evidence a thing exists, we can assume that it doesn't. There is no more justification to assume there is one true religion than that all religions are inventions of the human mind."

I'm not one for assuming anything I don't yet fully understand, so I don't ever go so far as to say 'absence of evidence is evidence of absence' when it's easier for me to just say I don't yet know enough to make a valid conclusion. Based on the supposed evidence, Theism doesn't seem very valid, but until I find evidence pointing to the non-existence of any 'god-like' being, I'll continue to be an Agnostic Atheist.
"The Emperor... wants to conquer outer space. Yoda... wants to explore inner space, and that is the fundamental difference between the good and the bad side of the force." - Moff (Human Traffic)

"Sleep is for the weak." - Tom (Toonami)