Greetings from the land of Oz!

[Zutara]

Namaste, fellow like-minded individuals!

I've been on the road to truth for a while now (I was raised in a Secular Household and since I got out of High School a few years ago I've had lots of free time to ponder the ideas set forth,) but Theism is one avenue where I am unable to find the dead-end. I've tried to discuss the idea on the Theistic side, but I don't get anywhere. Everywhere I turn on that road, I run into questions piled up on bullshit piled up on even more questions. Hopefully I can get to a better conclusion on the Atheistic side of the discussion.

I'd like to think I'm an Agnostic Atheist because I can't fully rule out the possibility while also not putting much 'faith' into the ideas set forth by the various religions of the world. To be fair, I'm more fascinated by the ideas set forth in Hinduism or Buddhism then any of the Bronze-Age teachings.

In the meantime, I have a few questions.

1. Is there any merit at all in the bible or any other 'holy' book or are they all full of allegorical stories made by bronze age (or earlier) humans written to help explain things that the writers didn't fully understand at the time and also writing in moral-speak in order to spread the message of prosperity for humanity?

2. If not Theism, then what? Is Humanism a better way of looking at the world?

3. Where do the members of this board stand on the ideas of Paganism? I like the points set forth about 'worshiping' nature, but I'm not all about worshiping so much as I am about protecting the world's flora from de-forestation and helping 'Mother Earth' thrive so to speak.

4. I realize that if we stay on the warpath we're on now, as far as the idea of Thermonuclear Weapons is concerned, we're all majorly fucked. Hell, war in general doesn't bode well with me. Why can't we all just settle our differences peacefully and democratically?

I realize that last question kind of strays away from the idea of Theism, but seeing as most of the scuffles we seem to be fighting lately are based around Islamic nations having religious tiffs with each-other it seems relevant to me. Please correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption. :)

Thank you in advance for answering my queries and I hope to have engrossing discussions in the days, months and perhaps even years to come.

Peace, Love & Lucid Dreams.

[Solitary]

Welcome aboard Zutara! Solitary

[Solitary]

1. Is there any merit at all in the bible or any other 'holy' book or are they all full of allegorical stories made by bronze age (or earlier) humans written to help explain things that the writers didn't fully understand at the time and also writing in moral-speak in order to spread the message of prosperity for humanity?

In my opinion you are correct---but I don't think it had anything to do with prosperity, and the moral code is self evident to any intelligent person as to some things, but asinine with others.

2. If not Theism, then what? Is Humanism a better way of looking at the world?

Yes!

3. Where do the members of this board stand on the ideas of Paganism? I like the points set forth about 'worshiping' nature, but I'm not all about worshiping so much as I am about protecting the world's flora from de-forestation and helping 'Mother Earth' thrive so to speak.

If we don't protect the earth---who will?

4. I realize that if we stay on the warpath we're on now, as far as the idea of Thermonuclear Weapons is concerned, we're all majorly fucked. Hell, war in general doesn't bode well with me. Why can't we all just settle our differences peacefully and democratically?

There are weapons of mass destruction worse then nuclear weapons! We can't settle difference for the very fact there are differences of opinion, and sometimes one has to use violence to protect themselves and others. We are still animals that have not evolved to be able to solve all problems a society runs into, like understanding individual and mass insanity, and how to solve it. Even if neurology knows how there will be people that object to it on ethical grounds.

I realize that last question kind of strays away from the idea of Theism, but seeing as most of the scuffles we seem to be fighting lately are based around Islamic nations having religious tiffs with each-other it seems relevant to me. Please correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption. :)

All religions are based on the assumption they have knowledge when all they have is ignorance, and each one thinks they are correct.

Thank you in advance for answering my queries and I hope to have engrossing discussions in the days, months and perhaps even years to come.

If you stay you will!  Solitary

[PickelledEggs]

Hi Zutura!

An official 'welcome' to the the forums!

To answer your questions in number order:
1 There is zero merit in holy books. No historical or moral merit. Period. Many people will try to say it is historically proven, but experts and historians are coming closer and closer to solidifying the conclusion that Jesus even never existed.  In terms of morals. There are a minuscule amount of moral things in the bible. So much that it's like sifting for gold in my toilet (before I started drinking Goldschlager). There are more discussing immoral acts permitted, commanded, and committed by god, that any moral things you get out of it is by human instinct to do good, rather than anything else. The great flood where god flooded the earth and told Noah beforehand to build an ark? Genocide committed by god. God also commands a group of people to raid, pillage, rape and kill the entire group of inhabitants of a land because it's their inheritance.... no other reason other than god wanted them to have the land other than the people that already were living there. Jesus was no saint either. He told people to bring people that did not accept his reign over him and slaughter them at his feet.

2 I can say for sure that Theism is not a good way to go about your life. But I don't want to tell you what world view. whatever works for you as long as it doesn't hurt you or anyone else mentally or physically.

3 I actually don't know this one. The subject doesn't come up unless it's about some bullshit spiritual belief like indigo children, psychics, or faith healing. Worshipping nature, imo is a good thing and doesn't have to necessarily be about gods/goddesses/spirits/faeries/etc. It could just be about loving the earth and resources that you desperately need to survive. Nature can be an amazing thing... one of the reason that people that don't fully understand, but at the same time, jump to conclusions and make up religions based on nature.

4 This is because of many different things. A lot of it is money and lack of concern for following generations. Another huge part is what we're seeing with ISIS in the middle east. Religion at it's core doing what is written with modern technology. It's definitely a disaster waiting to happen. Those Coexist stickers you see on the backs of cars are a nice thought, but for anyone that thinks about it for more than half a second, they realize it's a load of shit. In general terms, and not talking about the ISIS situation in the middle east... Christians cannot exist in a world with non-christians. Islam cannot exist with non-muslims. I don't know too much about Judaism, so I won't comment on it. Maybe someone else can.
Meanwhile, scientific advancement... biology, space travel, archaeology, etc... are a direct enemy of religion. It contradicts religion. How can we learn how to know how old a tree is, learn there is a 9000 year old tree still living, and be on the same page as these religions? That tree is older that both of their speculation of how old the world is. And that is just one example...

Anyway. Glad to have you aboard. Please tell us more about yourself. You seem to have some good comments/questions.

[Zutara]

4 This is because of many different things. A lot of it is money and lack of concern for following generations. Another huge part is what we're seeing with ISIS in the middle east. Religion at it's core doing what is written with modern technology. It's definitely a disaster waiting to happen. Those Coexist stickers you see on the backs of cars are a nice thought, but for anyone that thinks about it for more than half a second, they realize it's a load of shit. In general terms, and not talking about the ISIS situation in the middle east... Christians cannot exist in a world with non-christians. Islam cannot exist with non-muslims. I don't know too much about Judaism, so I won't comment on it. Maybe someone else can.
Meanwhile, scientific advancement... biology, space travel, archaeology, etc... are a direct enemy of religion. It contradicts religion. How can we learn how to know how old a tree is, learn there is a 9000 year old tree still living, and be on the same page as these religions? That tree is older that both of their speculation of how old the world is. And that is just one example...

Everywhere I look people seem to be in it for the money. From my perspective, the 1% who aren't interested in helping humanity out as a whole are more interested in gaining the upper hand and rising above someone who they consider to be of lesser value than themselves. What gives? Why is greed so evident in our society? It's almost as if it's in our very nature to be greedy and only a select few individuals choose to stray from said path...

Please tell us more about yourself.

What would you like to know?

[Mr.Obvious]

Welcome Zutara. I'm more of a kataang kind of guy, but don't let that make you feel any less welcome!

I was typing responses to your questions, but then my internet glitched out on me. Looks like it's not fully fixed yet. I hope you understand I don't really feel like typing another twenty minutes just to have it yanked away at the last second. If I find the time, I'll answer them again sometime, just not now. I got a laptop to fix.

[stromboli]

1. No

2. Yes

3. We have/have had pagans on here, including a witch. Also Buddhists; we even had a long running theist who was admittedly clueless.

4. Nuclear weapons are the big stick on the playground. The guy with the most buddies and the most big sticks rules the playground. The fear is that a gang of crazies might get their hands on some and start swinging, which forces the whole playground  in to a war mode.Unilateral disarmament is a myth, because there will always be people that want their own big sticks.

The original excuse was that we were protecting Israel from religious Jihad. Now it is justification for the military industrial complex.

[PickelledEggs]

What would you like to know?

What are your interests? What area are you from? What brings you to the forum? Etc

[Zutara]

What are your interests?

If I'm not working a mundane job or discussing and/or thinking about Theism, I like to make music. I've been making tunes for about 7 years now. If you'd like to listen to them you can PM me and I'll shoot you the links to my respective pages where I like to upload my tunes. I specialize in Sample-Based Hip Hop akin to the way DJ Shadow, Ant (of Atmosphere fame) and Jel make their tunes, but have also strayed into Jungle, Ambient & Old School Dubstep territory.

What area are you from?

I was originally born and raised in Salt Lake City, Utah. Being surrounded by Utah Mormons was a little weird, but Downtown Salt Lake is far more liberal when compared to the rest of the state, most especially Provo in the valley to the south. I moved to Wichita, Kansas a few months ago after my mum's mum died of complications that arose from a Cancerous Tumor in her esophagus. Wichita's public transport and overall infrastructure pales in comparison to Utah's by a long shot. Don't even begin to ask me what the Demographics are like. All I see around here are African Americans, poverty, and a whole lot of irrational Christians.

Hopefully, come this time next year I'll be living in Portland, Oregon. Right now, the perks of Oregon outweigh the negatives here in bum-fuck nowhere.

What brings you to the forum?

The will to figure out the meaning of life, the universe and everything. 

Perhaps I'm only here to partake of the world's forbidden fruits.  :fU:

Don't ask me about the odd use of smilies; I'm buzzed right now. 

"...etecetera..."

I like playing video games and consider myself to be a casual gamer, mostly playing campaigns rather than online play (sans GTA V's online as it's just like campaign only with endless access to Multitaps.) Other games I like to play include Metroid (Prime is my favorite game in the series, thanks to its numerous sequence breaks,) Timesplitters and the occasional Alien Hominid on my GameCube, Call of Duty: Zombies, Skyrim and Fallout 3, mixed in with various PS2 titles (Kingdom Hearts, Black and Jak and Daxter, among others.)

I enjoy my fair share of other entertainment as well. Supernatural, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Doctor Who, The Legend of Korra, Teen Titans, Appleseed, Ninja Scroll, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Inception, Transcendence, Blood+, Tin Man, Alice, Cow & Chicken, Megas XLR, Powerpuff Girls, Sailor Moon, Blue Sub No. 6, and various other IP's are in my watched repertoire.

I prefer to indulge in forward thinking and psychological horror cinema over any other. The type of scenarios that makes you puzzle over every detail in your mind. Comedy runs a close 2nd. (The Big Lebowski, Wolf of Wall Street, Shaun of the Dead (as well as the rest of Blood & Ice Cream trilogy being among my favorites in that category.)

I'm diagnosed with Asperger's. I suggest you read the /UsefulNotes/AspergerSyndrome page on TV Tropes if you want a crash course with that one. :)

1. Delays in social interaction.
2. A Highly Logical and Literal mindset.
3. Lack of social 'empathy'. Note: This doesn't mean sociopathy. Another biggie, the term "empathy" is misleading, as people with AS do feel and appreciate emotions, but they are unsure of what emotion others are feeling.

OK, I think that's a little bit of everything.

Peace, Love & Lucid Dreams

[Atheon]

1. Is there any merit at all in the bible or any other 'holy' book or are they all full of allegorical stories made by bronze age (or earlier) humans written to help explain things that the writers didn't fully understand at the time and also writing in moral-speak in order to spread the message of prosperity for humanity?

Aside from their value as stories that belong to the human canon of literature, there's little merit. There may be some good ideas, like love your neighbor and do unto others, but for the most part it's a steaming pile of poo.

2. If not Theism, then what?

Atheism. And yes, humanism is a better way of looking at the world.

3. Where do the members of this board stand on the ideas of Paganism? I like the points set forth about 'worshiping' nature, but I'm not all about worshiping so much as I am about protecting the world's flora from de-forestation and helping 'Mother Earth' thrive so to speak.

It's every bit as bogus as Christianity, Islam and the other religions. But I have a little more tolerance for it because it hasn't been a source of much evil in the world.

4. I realize that if we stay on the warpath we're on now, as far as the idea of Thermonuclear Weapons is concerned, we're all majorly fucked. Hell, war in general doesn't bode well with me. Why can't we all just settle our differences peacefully and democratically?

As long as there are petty, power-hungry, selfish assholes in the world, it'll be hard to settle differences peacefully. Our moral duty is to keep such people from gaining seats of power.

[PickelledEggs]

Nice!
I'd like to say I want to hear your music, but with me not liking hiphop... I'd be a liar if I did want to...

The meaning of life is whatever you want it to be. Remember that.

You have some good taste in shows. I actually loved Tin Man (probably mostly because of my crush on Zooey Deschanel... I might be a bit biased...)

I was actually friends with someone with aspergers in art college. I am well aware of some of the common traits and in fact I think we have at least one other person with aspergers on the forum.

[Green Bottle]

Welcome Zutara, this place is a fkn madhouse sometimes but im sure ull fit right in.
to answer ur questions.

1 No its a storybook.
2 Yes its better, anything is better than religion.
3 Paganism is for Pagans.
4 Because since time began humans have loved to fight with other humans because they believed in something different, its the way we are and the way we will always be, imo....

[Desdinova]

Welcome aboard Zutara!

As for your questions, I don't think I can add anything that Green Bottle said, so ditto to his responses.  Also, we have a couple of members with Mormon backgrounds if I'm not mistaken.  You will fit in here quite nicely, unless you're a sock puppet, then you will be banned to the world of purgatory.