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Thoughts on Bronies

Started by Munch, October 24, 2014, 02:53:59 PM

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Hydra009

#510
Quote from: PickelledEggs on January 08, 2016, 01:29:29 AMHydra, you're missing my point.
I thought the point was not to get bent out of shape by someone else's opinion and not to blow up on them about it.  Did that sum it up right?  I said I agreed with that and then tried to explain why bronies get pretty defensive about this topic.

QuoteAgain, bringing up that I think it's creepy was not to start a fan-war. It was to point out the reasons some people might find it creepy and to also point out that whining about it and demonizing the people that have an opinion other than liking My Little Pony as a culture/show/whatever isn't going to make things better for you.
Whoa there.  Who said anything about demonizing people who don't like the show?  I'd like to think I've been clear so far about this - that it's fine to like or dislike whatever you want and that the only thing I take issue with are the pretty extreme (and extremely inaccurate) depictions of the show/fandom.

QuoteIt was to point out, if someone is having a problem with people making fun of your fandom, get past it, and move on.

If you let people bug you about it and complain, you will draw in more hate. I don't care what people are a fan of. If you want to like MLP, cool. If you like Power Puff Girls. Cool. But I understand that other opinions shouldn't make a difference in a person's life if they're just stating it.
And I largely agree with that.  But like I said, I also feel obligated to rebut incorrect assertions.

QuoteI don't tell people IRL that I don't like My Little Pony... But, haters? No matter what someone likes or does there will always be them. And that's a fact. You're setting yourself up for delusion if you think otherwise.
Perhaps hatedom was a poor choice of words.  Though the write-up I had in mind did have some striking similarities with common complaints about MLP (particularly animation age ghetto and girl show ghetto).  Not necessarily hateful, just prone to inaccurate stereotypes which often leads to a sort of moral panic in which bronies are seen as creepy deviants rather than relatively normal people who are just a fan of something they're not a fan of.

Please note that the people on this thread so far who have stated that they saw an episode and didn't like the show for whatever reason got along just fine with the bronies here, but the people who came up with some ReeferMadness-esque depiction of bronies got some flak for it.

QuotePeople always think their interest/personal identifiers/etc are immune to criticism. Reality check: nothing is sacred.
No kidding.  Again, what gave you the impression that I thought otherwise?  In this thread alone, Grinning and I hashed out some of the episodes we hated and some of the Aesops of the show that we thought were reprehensible, especially to children.  And in general, I'm pretty hard on just about everything I like.  I'm pretty notorious for that, in fact.  I'm a little lost on where you got the opposite impression.

QuoteI'm not going to defend my reason on why I don't like MLP, because it doesn't matter. Maybe it's irrational why I don't like it, maybe it's not...
That one particular argument definitely is.  All the other ones brought up by others so far (all 3 of them) have been as well.  Really, it's the irrationality that irritates me, not the insults.

QuoteIt makes no difference what I think, and that's my point by bringing it up. Arguing with me that it's ok to feel butthurt about people criticizing what other people like isn't going to fix bronies' problems.
Like I said before, I'm not personally offended.

QuoteWhat is going to work better for me if, lets say I like MLP and people make fun of me for it?
A-Try to argue that they're wrong about their opinion/ argue that it was intended for adults too/ argue that it's irrational to dislike my fandom? etc?
Well, if they say that it's for children, I see nothing wrong with pointing out that the show's creator stated that she intended it for adults as well as children.  Correcting misapprehensions is a good thing, is it not?

QuoteB-Realize that EVEN IF I convince that person that MLP is ok to like and they all of a sudden like MLP
Getting people to like MLP is not my goal.

Quotethere will always be an infinite supply of people that don't like that/other things I like and I should just work on myself to not get bothered by it...
Agreed. 

QuoteBecause a very large amount of the people that are still hating on the thing I like... will never change their view.
I know.  I figured that I could talk to people barreling in here, aghast that people like MLP - a show they remember from the 80s as utter crap - and that at least one person would discard that incorrect impression and form a new one in response to new information.  Because if you're going to not like something, one should at least not like the actual thing.  Is attempting this wrong?

QuoteIf you think A is your answer, you're lost.
GG no re, then.

QuoteAgain, to summarize:
-just because you like something, does not make it immune to criticism
-just because someone has an opinion, does not necessarily make them the bad guy.
Neither position accurately depicts my position.  If you're going to disagree with my position, at least argue against my actual position.

QuoteI didn't talk about this yet, but even if they are being persistent with bashing you for something, thus being the bad guy, you still need to learn how to grow yourself to learn to deal with those situations. Figure out how to remove those toxic people from your life. Adapt, you may like My Little Pony, but you're not one-trick ponies. You have more things up your sleeve than crying "I'm a victim! I'm a vicitm!"
Please tell me we're talking in general terms and not specifically about me.  Because if that's about me, that'd be the most wrong of all the wrong things I've seen tonight.  I simply post a rebuttal and move on.  Generally, the argument's resolved in a couple replies and we're talking about something else.  (though the accusation does tend to be presented anew by somebody else a few pages later as if it had never been discussed before)  Hardly dwelling on it, and definitely not playing the victim.

aitm

AAAANNNDDD THIS is why I stay out places like this...er......bye.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

josephpalazzo

I vote for closing this thread.

Hydra009

Heh, sorry to make you guys so uncomfortable.  I'll wait on PickledEggs's reply and I plan on either finding common ground or agreeing to disagree.  Then it's back to your regularly scheduled program.

aitm

No problems, I am not uncomfortable. I just swing in to see how much weirder it gets  :)~

I have nothing to add, so I shall say nothing eh?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

PickelledEggs

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 08, 2016, 03:35:59 AM
I thought the point was not to get bent out of shape by someone else's opinion and not to blow up on them about it.  Did that sum it up right?
Yes.
QuoteI said I agreed with that and then tried to explain why bronies get pretty defensive about this topic.
I already understand why bronies get defensive about it.

QuoteWhoa there.  Who said anything about demonizing people who don't like the show?  I'd like to think I've been clear so far about this - that it's fine to like or dislike whatever you want and that the only thing I take issue with are the pretty extreme (and extremely inaccurate) depictions of the show/fandom.
And I largely agree with that.
Like I said before in my previous post, there must be a lot of miscommunication on both our parts and I must have misinterpreted you abou that, then
QuoteBut like I said, I also feel obligated to rebut incorrect assertions.
I don't agree with going about it like that... I feel like it's a losing battle because no matter what because there will always be someone that is immovable with their view and assertions, but if you want to that's your choice. And that's part of my point; do what you want/like what you want.
QuotePerhaps hatedom was a poor choice of words.  Though the write-up I had in mind did have some striking similarities with common complaints about MLP (particularly animation age ghetto and girl show ghetto).  Not necessarily hateful, just prone to inaccurate stereotypes which often leads to a sort of moral panic in which bronies are seen as creepy deviants rather than relatively normal people who are just a fan of something they're not a fan of.
Maybe it is a poor choice of words, I don't think so though. There are people that truly despise that and other cultures, like you are also saying. I'm obviously not one of those, but you already seem like you know that.

QuotePlease note that the people on this thread so far who have stated that they saw an episode and didn't like the show for whatever reason got along just fine with the bronies here, but the people who came up with some ReeferMadness-esque depiction of bronies got some flak for it.
Yes. I realize that. But I also realize that there are people that have those exact reasons, ridiculous reasons, for not liking bronies and MLP as a whole... as well as other fandoms and things... and I kind of understand where they get that false assumption from.

QuoteNo kidding.  Again, what gave you the impression that I thought otherwise?  In this thread alone, Grinning and I hashed out some of the episodes we hated and some of the Aesops of the show that we thought were reprehensible, especially to children.  And in general, I'm pretty hard on just about everything I like.  I'm pretty notorious for that, in fact.  I'm a little lost on where you got the opposite impression.
Quote
I actually got that impression, which is why I felt like something I was saying wasn't coming out right and we were in-fact agreeing. That something was being missed or not said clearly.
QuoteThat one particular argument definitely is.  All the other ones brought up by others so far (all 3 of them) have been as well.  Really, it's the irrationality that irritates me, not the insults.
A lot of reasons for disliking things are irrational. I dislike country music. I don't know why. I just don't. No matter how hard I try, I cannot force myself to like it. It just urks me. Same thing with other people with fandoms and other things.
QuoteLike I said before, I'm not personally offended.
Yes. I know. Like I'm saying in this post, there has been a lot of miscommunication with both parties. I guess it's misleading for people if someone else defends someone's interests because they think it would be offensive to the other person, it gives the impression that the person jumping in to defend is also offended.

QuoteWell, if they say that it's for children, I see nothing wrong with pointing out that the show's creator stated that she intended it for adults as well as children.
I agree. 
QuoteCorrecting misapprehensions is a good thing, is it not?
It depends, IMO.
QuoteGetting people to like MLP is not my goal.
Yes, I know. 
QuoteI know.  I figured that I could talk to people barreling in here, aghast that people like MLP - a show they remember from the 80s as utter crap - and that at least one person would discard that incorrect impression and form a new one in response to new information.  Because if you're going to not like something, one should at least not like the actual thing.  Is attempting this wrong?
I actually don't know... I personally agree. If someone is going to dislike something, they should dislike the actual thing. I've never even watched the old MLP, so the only thing I dislike is the new one. I do that with most things in my life... Movies, shows, people, music, etc. And I would hope other people would give something or someone a chance before they decide they like or dislike it
... but everyone is not us. Some people just like to hate. And I'm not defending it, but I do realize that it happens and more times than not, it's a hopeless cause to try to get people to see the real thing before jumping in to judgment. A lot of times, it does cause an adverse reaction and the person is so irrational that they become even more against it.
It definitely depends on who you're dealing with.

Short, related side-track example. My mom and I were talking and somehow the subject of GMOs came up. (she is anti-gmo/pro organic) I mentioned that the anti-gmo movement is based on a lot of misinformation. Before I could say anything else, she started getting upset and angry because she somehow assumed that because I think people that believe the anti-gmo movement is misinformed, SHE is "all-around gullible and stupid"  Her exact words.
Some people are flat out irrational and there's nothing you or I can do to change that. And to go further, trying to clear up even the simplest of things with an irrational person can result in more harm than good. For instance, now with my mom, she is even deeper in to the anti-gmo movement than before I mentioned that it's based on a lot of misinformation.

QuoteNeither position accurately depicts my position.  If you're going to disagree with my position, at least argue against my actual position.
My recent first post, a page back, this was what  was trying to say. I was not trying to argue with you, just trying to get back on track to what I was attempting at saying... which I guess was off topic. Especially the way I said it. I was actually confused why you were arguing with me about something I felt wasn't what I was talking about, but I think that has to do with how I worded my first post a page back, it was worded poorly and I guess it gave the impression I was saying something I was not trying to.

QuotePlease tell me we're talking in general terms and not specifically about me.  Because if that's about me, that'd be the most wrong of all the wrong things I've seen tonight.  I simply post a rebuttal and move on.  Generally, the argument's resolved in a couple replies and we're talking about something else.  (though the accusation does tend to be presented anew by somebody else a few pages later as if it had never been discussed before)  Hardly dwelling on it, and definitely not playing the victim.
Yes. In general terms entirely. I don't think I've ever seen you play the "victim" card ever really. Sorry if it came off that way, if it seemed like I was addressing someone personally. I wasn't really addressing anyone in here personally.

So basically, I do think we agree on most things...

Hydra009

#516
I hear ya.  And looking back, I think I have been reacting too defensively and taking pretty inflammatory assertions far too seriously, thereby exacerbating the problem.  Most people have been pretty understanding, even if it isn't their thing, and I shouldn't sweat the odd person who genuinely believes heinous stuff about people who just watch a TV show.  Trying to confront people like that, especially in my admittedly abrasive way, does more harm than good.  As in your example with your mom, it just upsets people and sets the whole discussion into mutual antagonism.

Also, I've been acting like someone talking smack online is some threat to be countered - that everyone would just believe it if I let it go uncontested, that it'd somehow be the deathknell of the fandom.  I overestimated their persuasiveness and underestimated the audience's intelligence.  Sorry about that, too.

In short, this has been me lately and I need to not be that way.

widdershins

I can certainly see why bronies would be so defensive and why they would take exception to how people perceive them, but if a comparison is fair, the comparison is fair.  If you like MLP porn, does that mean you're into bestiality?  Certainly not!  But is the comparison to bestiality fair?  It's not only fair, it's natural.  Is a drawing of a fictional 16 year old girl dressed provocatively the same as a picture of a 16 year old girl dressed that same way?  No, and I certainly don't feel the same way about those two things.  But is the comparison of the two fair?  Absolutely.  Both are depictions of the same thing, one is just fantasy.

So if it's being said you are into bestiality because you like MLP porn, that is definitely something I would straighten out.  But to compare it to bestiality, that is fair and natural, so long as the person doesn't make the leap to accusations of socially untollerated fetishes.

But the reality is, I don't really know why I find it creepy.  I just do.  I can argue and try to explain it or clarify my position all day long, but I would bet it would take at least a few weeks of deep thought on the issue to even understand myself the various nuances of what, exactly, it is about it that I find creepy.  I definitely find the porn creepy.  I also find merchandise collecting creepy.  Why?  I just do.  To walk into a 30 year old man's room and see a MLP lamp by his bed and some dolls on the shelf, I find that creepy.  Does that mean that man is a creepy man?  No.  That man is, in fact, my very good friend.  I am not creeped out by him.  I am creeped out by his obsession.  I don't know why.  I don't care to know why.  I don't see myself as having a problem that needs fixing.  Neither do I see him as having a problem that needs fixing.  I'm comfortable with the creepy bastard and he's comfortable with me being creeped out.  So really, there isn't a problem which needs fixing as far as I can see.
This sentence is a lie...

PickelledEggs

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 08, 2016, 02:32:28 PM
In short, this has been me lately and I need to not be that way.

Yeah. That was me for a good while lol. At one point it was so bad, I realized I missed my old self, the person that doesn't get offended by stupid things and I just snapped right back in to place, as if I had an ache in my hands and I cracked my knuckles.

I kind of like your abrasive/blunt way though... straight to the point. I try to do that most of the time, but my grasp of the english language isn't what it should be.
In fact, I actually favor someone when they're extra blunt with they're words. My best friend always apologizes for when I ask him for advice and he thinks he's too harsh, but I specifically ask him because how to-the-point he is. Probably why I regard him as my friend in the first place.


Jannabear

Personally I don't really give a shit what people watch. Considering I've seen shit like peach from the mario franchise with dick rings. Yeah, I'm not in the position to judge people over watching stupid shit, only thing I've seen that's dumb enough for me to be judgmental is when people believe in supernatural bullshit, that's where I draw the line personally, even then I don't really care as long as they don't hurt anyone.

drunkenshoe

Quote from: PickelledEggs on January 08, 2016, 03:55:39 PM
In fact, I actually favor someone when they're extra blunt with they're words.

Reading that I felt like the female vampire in the bar ( a scene from Queen of the Damned) asking the human protagonist "Is that an offer?", her mouth open, fangs hanging out in blood lust. :ppp

Seriously, though I don't know you very well and probably we don't agree about a lot of things, but I always thought you are one of the most naturally decent people I have ever met. I actually think you need to be corrupted by a healthy dose for your own good.




"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

GrinningYMIR

I havent caught up since the start of S5 but it seems the fandom is still going strong.

Also Starlight glimmer is hawt.

that is all

"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"<br /><br />Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Munch

Starlight glimmers a .. what, 14 year old?

Anyway, she was fun as an antagonist, seriously this scene cracked me up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ8rP-d64dw

But as a good guy, dunno, it felt like they just made her as a 'what sunset shimmer would have been like'. And honestly I find sunset a lot more interesting as a reformed bad guy. 
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

GrinningYMIR

she's in her 20's roughly, they all get downgraded to high school level in EG. (come on they all have their own homes and jobs, what high schoolers have that. Dash has like a fucking mansion)

besides


if thats 15, they dont make them like they did when i was in school
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"<br /><br />Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Munch

#524
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on March 07, 2017, 07:45:40 PM
she's in her 20's roughly, they all get downgraded to high school level in EG. (come on they all have their own homes and jobs, what high schoolers have that. Dash has like a fucking mansion)

besides


if thats 15, they dont make them like they did when i was in school

yeah that always seemed a weird twist to have them grown adults in one universe but young teens in another. And how does that work for twilight when she jumps between worlds?

Anyway, somethings thats always gonna bother me is the presentation of men in this show. I know its meant to be a show for a young female audience, but I've never liked the excuse that because its aimed at girls that men should be given a negative or lackluster role, little girls have fathers to they need to look up to.

male characters with a strong level of masculinity are relegated to being either extremely evil or antagonistic (Sombra, Tirak, Iron will), being incredibly stupid or damselish (Bulk Bicep, Shining Armor) or just having little to no characterization from a few lines (Big Mac).
Now its had a lot of one shot male characters showing a variety, and of course you have ones like discord, whos still the best character on the show, but outside of him, all the other main stay male characters are just lacking in character or presentation.

https://goodmenproject.com/all-things-geek/a-lack-of-equality-in-equestria-representations-of-masculinity-in-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-xela/

I think of how they wrote Greg in steven universe, who is probably my favorite cartoon dads, how he's kind, funny, a slacker, but when things get serious he pulls out everything he can to help his son, to me he's one of the best human characters in steven universe for this reason, and the writers didn't need to compromise his masculinity, for the sake of making the female leads stronger.



I can overlook it most of the time, but every time I see big mac on screen saying 'yup' and nothing else, I find myself comparing mlp to SU or Star vs the forces of evil.

'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin