Why Is Trying To Find The Facts On Topics Looked Down At On This Forum?

[Hydra009]

That's you opinion!

I'M NOT ANGRY!!!!

[Hydra009]

I also learned---"on my own"---that who's right or wrong about bees being a species depends on what definition is used

I guarantee you that you will never find a biologist (or even someone passingly acquainted with biological classification) that will say that all bees are the same species.  Ever.  The fact that you still think that this is up in the air is pretty alarming.

[Hydra009]

So how do you explain this then?

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/VSpeciation.shtm

If just one species becomes extinct, like bees, we will too. Note: Bee's plural. My post.


Let’s start by defining a species.

Defining a Species

A species is often defined as a group of individuals that actually or potentially interbreed in nature. In this sense, a species is the biggest gene pool possible under natural conditions.

All the bees you show can interbreed, therefore bees, including all of those you show, are a species.

An exact duplicate of your other post, to fully complete the picture that I'm essentially arguing with a brick wall.



Stay scientific, Jerry.

[Mermaid]

Rick and Morty!

[the_antithesis]

Guys, maybe it's time to get some sleep?

[PickelledEggs]

Solitary, from when I read that other thread, you were pretty set on how "bees are a species" and were having a hard time wrapping your head around how there could be different species of bees.

In other words, the thread you just started here applies more to you than Hydra or anyone else on this forum.

Everyone just get some food in your stomachs, take a nap, and chill out.

[Icarus]

"A species is often defined as a group of individuals that actually or potentially interbreed in nature."

This is sort of correct, the individuals breeding have to produce viable offspring that can also breed. This definition of course has a BIG asterisk next to it because we're dealing with biological organisms and it's never that simple.

[PickelledEggs]

Did someone report to a moderator because they can't handle the truth? Where in the heck did you gather that? If bees aren't a species of animals explain what they are then. There are species and sub species, but there is still a species called bees because they can interbreed with the sub species. This is a fact that I gave given evidence for from Berkeley biologists, not my opinion. Why wouldn't I be stuck on it---look at my logo, I'm not exactally a dunch with biology.   Does this have to be taken to a formal debate because someone got their butt hurt? This is exactly what I was talking about, giving facts to support an argument is looked down at. You want me to leave I will, but don't tell me to cool it, and not give my evidence. Is everyone here a teenager that can't face the truth, or just pedantic jerks that can't handle a forum unless everyone agrees with them? Isn't this a forum? Or just a proselytizing place of presumptions for pedantic posers. Solitary

Think of bees as a family of species. It's a group of species. Similar to how humans and chimps are apes.

Sent from your mom

[Hydra009]

I am very much aware of that, and just the point I'm trying to make. Solitary

If that was actually the case, I would have nothing to correct you on.  But that's not the case.  Hence the ongoing disagreement.

[Hydra009]

That's an awful lot of research to still be just as wrong as you were 5 min ago.  They were actually different species.  Anyone who can read would see the different species names.

[Jmpty]

"... I was much struck how entirely vague and arbitrary is the distinction between species and varieties" Darwin 1859 (p. 48)[1]
"No term is more difficult to define than "species," and on no point are zoologists more divided than as to what should be understood by this word". Nicholson (1872) p. 20[52]
"Of late, the futility of attempts to find a universally valid criterion for distinguishing species has come to be fairly generally, if reluctantly, recognized" Dobzhansky (1937) p. 310[18]
"The concept of a species is a concession to our linguistic habits and neurological mechanisms" Haldane (1956)[45]
"The species problem is the long-standing failure of biologists to agree on how we should identify species and how we should define the word 'species'." Hey (2001)[48]
"First, the species problem is not primarily an empirical one, but it is rather fraught with philosophical questions that require - but cannot be settled by - empirical evidence." Pigliucci (2003)[21]
"An important aspect of any species definition whether in neontology or palaeontology is that any statement that particular individuals (or fragmentary specimens) belong to a certain species is an hypothesis (not a fact)"[53]
"We show that although discrete phenotypic clusters exist in most [plant] genera (>80%), the correspondence of taxonomic species to these clusters is poor (<60%) and no different between plants and animals. ... Contrary to conventional wisdom, plant species are more likely than animal species to represent reproductively independent lineages."[54]

[Hydra009]

So "you" say, but the guide says subspecies in front of each one.  I guess they are wrong, so you are correct after all.

What if I told you that we're both correct and it's just that you don't fully understand what you're looking at.  The link actually contains lots of different species and their subspecies and you pretended that the only differences between all of them was that they belong to different subspecies.

I just can't tell if you did that deliberately so as to not have to admit that there's actually a ton of different species there and you've been talking bollocks this whole time or you looked at the page and simply didn't understand basic taxonomic terminology for the 10th consecutive time.

[Jmpty]

Are horses and donkeys the same species?

[Hakurei Reimu]

Solitary, is there some sort of medication that you skipped this morning? Seriously, you took one statement about bees (a common name that does not necessarily bear any taxonomic heft in the first place) and its importance to our own civilization, and have somehow woven it into this gigantic biological conspiracy to turn a single species into the almighty superfamily of Apoidea.

You need to go back to your cage.

[Hydra009]

Solitary, is there some sort of medication that you skipped this morning? Seriously, you took one statement about bees (a common name that does not necessarily bear any taxonomic heft in the first place) and its importance to our own civilization, and have somehow woven it into this gigantic biological conspiracy to turn a single species into the almighty superfamily of Apoidea.

Hooray!  So I'm not the only one who noticed that!

I'm only harping on it because I'm very much a stickler from getting the facts straight.  And most people will hear me out, figure out the mistake, and amend it.  Then there's no problem.  But every now and then, there's that one stubborn person who's too cocksure to be wrong...