Author Topic: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr  (Read 14664 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #105 on: August 29, 2015, 10:34:32 PM »
Peacewithoutgod ... project much?  I am quite happy to be more like you ... been there, done that too ;-)  I went thru my atheist periods ... though I am more pro-deva oriented now than atheist/agnostic.  Or since I experience G-d as a deva ... then maybe I am pro-asura ... because I oppose G-d?  I am a heretic.

OK, here is why I reject Deism.  Other than the powdered wigs and snuff.  Because of epistemology.  For me, to be knowledge, it has to exist in the present.  So evidence from the past ... is too weak to be taken seriously, including the Bible as history (which it is not anyway).  And progressive fantasies (or apocalyptic fantasies) are about a future that has even less evidence than the past.  So if G-d is important, then G-d has to be at least passive in the present, if not active ... or both.  Deism says ... everything about G-d happened in the distant past (at the Big Bang in the modern theist version).  According to De Chardin, G-d is in the distant future, the Omega Point.  Again an epistemological fail.  And if you were paying attention, my mention of Genesis, wasn't to support Deism ... you were projecting.

Solitary ... so what about atheist Advaita ticks you off?  Is it because he doesn't denounce theist Hindus?  And why such an old post ... he has posted since last year.
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Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #106 on: August 29, 2015, 11:00:39 PM »
I have no idea what you are talking about. I don't even know an atheist Advaita. But to you saying only God knows the final numeral for pi you are wrong, and I can prove it: Aleph-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------58295141. 3 Whew! I did it. All the numbers counting backwards from Aleph. See!
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Offline Baruch

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #107 on: August 29, 2015, 11:29:54 PM »
In Ayupmanyav's recent posts, he has told us about atheist Advaita.  Try to keep up ;-)

Did you know that worrying about infinities (Dr Kronecker) caused the inventor of Aleph Null, to go insane?
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Offline peacewithoutgod

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #108 on: August 29, 2015, 11:39:26 PM »
Peacewithoutgod ... project much?  I am quite happy to be more like you ... been there, done that too ;-)  I went thru my atheist periods ... though I am more pro-deva oriented now than atheist/agnostic.  Or since I experience G-d as a deva ... then maybe I am pro-asura ... because I oppose G-d?  I am a heretic.
I see - you aren't just a heretic, but a real diva of a heretic!  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:


OK, here is why I reject Deism.  Other than the powdered wigs and snuff.  Because of epistemology.  For me, to be knowledge, it has to exist in the present.  So evidence from the past ... is too weak to be taken seriously, including the Bible as history (which it is not anyway).  And progressive fantasies (or apocalyptic fantasies) are about a future that has even less evidence than the past.  So if G-d is important, then G-d has to be at least passive in the present, if not active ... or both.  Deism says ... everything about G-d happened in the distant past (at the Big Bang in the modern theist version).  According to De Chardin, G-d is in the distant future, the Omega Point.  Again an epistemological fail.  And if you were paying attention, my mention of Genesis, wasn't to support Deism ... you were projecting.
That is not how I read definitions available on deism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
Nothing about this states anything about a creator-god being absent in the here and now. It may be interacting with its creation in some ways, it may be laughing drunkenly while watching us over a case of beer, or it may be playing Playstation with us while drinking its beer, but none of the above would mean it isn't there. Anyway, you cannot be a "theist" when you reject all gods which can be described and characterized, which I'm sure you have said of yourself at least once, and the only options remaining are "deist", "agnostic", and "atheist". "Heretic" applies to religious ideas, not science, sorry but it's not one of the logical boxes which one can check.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 11:49:28 PM by peacewithoutgod »
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #109 on: August 30, 2015, 02:15:16 AM »

That is not how I read definitions available on deism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
Nothing about this states anything about a creator-god being absent in the here and now. It may be interacting with its creation in some ways, it may be laughing drunkenly while watching us over a case of beer, or it may be playing Playstation with us while drinking its beer, but none of the above would mean it isn't there. Anyway, you cannot be a "theist" when you reject all gods which can be described and characterized, which I'm sure you have said of yourself at least once, and the only options remaining are "deist", "agnostic", and "atheist". "Heretic" applies to religious ideas, not science, sorry but it's not one of the logical boxes which one can check.

A word is a word is a word is a word is a word is a word is a word is a wrod is a wrod is a wrod is a wrod is a word is a word is a word


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deism
noun
1. belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism ).
2. belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.

It seems like they're saying relying on any thing other than what can be observed now would be silly. If you can't personally experience it then you're just blindly going off of what other people have passed down through history.
Then you get into what constituents evidence and no one will agree with that.
This is like a never ending game. That's the fun of it!



So if god(any god(s)) were real and it was literally infinity how would you take an inventory of it? What is the shape of infinity? Just because something cannot be describe doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Humans haven't even reached another star system yet and there are billions upon billions upon billions upon billions.......................................

Quote
At the great origin there was nothing, nothing, no name.
The one arose from it; there was one without form.
In taking different forms, it brought life, and became known as virtue.
Before any shape was given, their roles were assigned,
varied and diverse but all linked to one another.
This was their lot.
The forces worked on and things were created,
they grew and took distinct shapes, and these were called "bodies."
The bodies contained spirits, each distinct and mortal.
This is what we call the innate nature.
Train this innate nature and it will return to virtue;
Virtue at its best is identical with the origin.
Being of the one is to be ultimately formless, and this formlessness is vast.

This is like the opening and shutting of a bird's beak,
where the opening and shutting is like heaven and earth united
This unity is chaotic and disorderly;
it looks stupid or foolish.
This is known as mysterious virtue,
being, without knowing it, part of the great submission.

Quote
2. Being such, he lets the gold lie hid in the hill, and the pearls in the deep; he considers not property or money to be any gain; he keeps aloof from riches and honours; he rejoices not in long life, and grieves not for early death; he does not account prosperity a glory, nor is ashamed of indigence; he would not grasp at the gain of the whole world to be held as his own private portion; he would not desire to rule over the whole world as his own private distinction. His distinction is in understanding that all things belong to the one treasury, and that death and life should be viewed in the same way.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 02:59:37 AM by Nihil-ist »
"At some point in human history there were no gods."
"Deus est mortuus logica obtinet"

Offline peacewithoutgod

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #110 on: August 30, 2015, 02:22:31 AM »
A word is a word is a word is a word is a word is a word is a word is a wrod is a wrod is a wrod is a wrod is a word is a word is a word
  :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:
 :anal: :anal: :anal: :anal: :anal: :anal: :anal: :anal: :anal:
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Offline Baruch

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #111 on: August 30, 2015, 08:25:43 AM »
Peacewithoutgod ... if you trust authority ... such as a dictionary ... which is made by lexicographers, why don't you obey another authority, like the Pope?  I reject authority, including lexicographers and Bible interpreters.  I use a word as makes sense to my own observation and analysis.  Argument via dictionary won't do much for me (did you know one of the original contributors to the OED was stark raving mad?).  Think of a dictionary as an early version of Wikipedia.  Do you trust Wikipedia?
שלום

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #112 on: August 30, 2015, 09:31:01 AM »
Peacewithoutgod ... if you trust authority ... such as a dictionary ... which is made by lexicographers, why don't you obey another authority, like the Pope?  I reject authority, including lexicographers and Bible interpreters.  I use a word as makes sense to my own observation and analysis.  Argument via dictionary won't do much for me (did you know one of the original contributors to the OED was stark raving mad?).  Think of a dictionary as an early version of Wikipedia.  Do you trust Wikipedia?
I do understand your point; and to a large extend, I agree.  However, with this caveat.  A dictionary can be a tool of understanding.  If two (or more) parties can agree on a dictionary definition of a word or group of words describing an idea, then the chances of a fruitful discussion are enhanced. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #113 on: August 30, 2015, 11:19:05 AM »
But I will never agree to any definition.  That would be like a Roman consul agreeing on a battlefield to fight Hannibal on ... and we know how that worked out for the Romans ;-(
שלום

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #114 on: August 30, 2015, 11:24:23 AM »
In Ayupmanyav's recent posts, he has told us about atheist Advaita.  Try to keep up ;-)

Did you know that worrying about infinities (Dr Kronecker) caused the inventor of Aleph Null, to go insane?
        I did know he went insane, as so many do dealing with infinity.  I went crazy myself at the Infinity Hotel until I finally got a room after every guest had to move up one room from the one I wanted.     I'm trying to keep up, but all the voices in head keep screaming.
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Offline Baruch

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #115 on: August 30, 2015, 11:51:10 AM »
I am super impressed that you know about the Infinity Hotel.  But what about the same deal, only on a Mobius strip ... a simple circular band would be tame?

That is where math differs from physics.  It should take a finite amount of energy for each guest to move one up.  If that finite amount were the same for each guest, it would take an infinite amount of energy to move all the guests up.  But if the finite amount were say ... decreasing sufficiently fast, relative to one guest above the one immediately below ... then the series converges and you can do this with a finite amount of energy.  The easiest compensation is for each guest to require 1/10th as much energy to move as the guest immediately below.  Then that leaves us with whether the resulting real number is rational or irrational ;-))
שלום

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #116 on: August 30, 2015, 01:14:10 PM »
I am super impressed that you know about the Infinity Hotel.  But what about the same deal, only on a Mobius strip ... a simple circular band would be tame?

That is where math differs from physics.  It should take a finite amount of energy for each guest to move one up.  If that finite amount were the same for each guest, it would take an infinite amount of energy to move all the guests up.  But if the finite amount were say ... decreasing sufficiently fast, relative to one guest above the one immediately below ... then the series converges and you can do this with a finite amount of energy.  The easiest compensation is for each guest to require 1/10th as much energy to move as the guest immediately below.  Then that leaves us with whether the resulting real number is rational or irrational ;-))

Zeno's paradoxes are interesting too. They've been "solved" but still interesting.





"At some point in human history there were no gods."
"Deus est mortuus logica obtinet"

Offline Baruch

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #117 on: August 30, 2015, 02:16:26 PM »
The wise know there are no answers/solutions ... just better and better questions.  Though progress is a bit like Achilles and the tortoise ... each advance gets smaller and smaller.  Biology is mostly cellular automata ... but in biology, not computers.
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Offline peacewithoutgod

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #118 on: August 30, 2015, 02:56:50 PM »
Peacewithoutgod ... if you trust authority ... such as a dictionary ... which is made by lexicographers, why don't you obey another authority, like the Pope?  I reject authority, including lexicographers and Bible interpreters.  I use a word as makes sense to my own observation and analysis.  Argument via dictionary won't do much for me (did you know one of the original contributors to the OED was stark raving mad?).  Think of a dictionary as an early version of Wikipedia.  Do you trust Wikipedia?
Now I think we need to add a few more smilies, for you are the best purveyor of the red-herring sandwich!

Lexicographers aren't authorities any more than scientists are. Scientists and lexicographers are like oracles of truth that can be tested, and if you see the Pope being no different, then you are indeed a theist.

IF you trust the pope, then why do you keep spewing out "heresies"?

Lexicographers are not 100% correct, of course they aren't. For example, the word "atheist" has been discussed here - when you borrow from the Greeks, you should use it like the Greeks, and I am in no way alone in that position! YOU just like to set up whack-a-mole games with words, changing them as it suits you. I think you would call black white and piss yellow blue if you thought it would support your position. Your sort of games are not exactly what they call honest, but since you care not about what others think , and will believe not what is compelling through evidence but what you wish to, then this is what they call "delusional". Once you're there, what you think no longer matters - for example, nobody's going to consider your claim that you are "G-d".
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 03:00:25 PM by peacewithoutgod »
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Offline Baruch

Re: Hindu's Hate me on Tumblr
« Reply #119 on: August 30, 2015, 10:41:42 PM »
Of course I am not G-d ... I wouldn't stoop that low (ethically speaking).  I am one of countless images of G-d ... same as you.

Scientist and lexicographers are oracles?  Really!!  So do you also worship dead Lenin and dead Mao ... or just the bits and pieces of Einstein's brain that they saved ... Raelian much?  Nano ... nano.
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