Author Topic: Imprisoned 1000 days without a trial  (Read 7994 times)

Imprisoned 1000 days without a trial
« on: February 23, 2013, 12:26:26 AM »
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So, what do you think of Bradley Manning? Is he a hero or a traitor? How can the goverment justify what it's doing to him?

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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2013, 01:17:01 AM »
First off, he's a traitor.  I think his intentions were good, but the way he did it could have led to national security issues.  These were documents on a secret system that he then moved over to a non-secure system.  This is a major violation of thing.  He should have taken those documents to his chain of command, or possibly congress so he could actually use the whistle blower defense.

Secondly, the United States isn't doing this to him, his legal team is.  They keep trying to come up with new defenses and skirt around things.  They are the ones delaying his trial, not the US government.

Offline SGOS

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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 08:11:41 AM »
For what it's worth, according to Noam Chomsky, the biggest reason for secrecy in governments is to hide truth from its citizens, not the enemy.  I tend to agree, not that I'm saying it's OK to give secrets to the enemy, of course.  But from what I can tell, Manning's efforts amounted mostly to leaking embarrassing stuff about politicians that were little more than things we could gossip about, and things that did not paint them with the rosy brush they would prefer.

Having said that, I don't understand why he did it.  He should have known better than to piss off the power structure.  You can't do that and not expect retribution.

Re: Imprisoned 1000 days without a trial
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 08:55:00 AM »
I missed these leaks.  Could the documents aid an enemy in exploiting America in any way?

Offline Nonsensei

Re: Imprisoned 1000 days without a trial
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2013, 08:58:37 AM »
To anyone concerned about the opacity of the government Bradley is a hero and the government's treatment of him and his trial is a confirmation of everything they fear.
And on the wings of a dream so far beyond reality
All alone in desperation now the time has come
Lost inside you\'ll never find, lost within my own mind
Day after day this misery must go on

Offline SGOS

Re: Imprisoned 1000 days without a trial
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2013, 09:55:08 AM »
Quote from: "wolf39us"
I missed these leaks.  Could the documents aid an enemy in exploiting America in any way?
Some of the gossipy tidbits made it to the media.  Nothing I saw would aid the enemy.  That's not saying some critical stuff was not filtered from or by the media.  Wikileaks supposedly printed all of it.  I read some of it but quickly got bored and couldn't make it through most of it.  There was a lot of negative stuff from Western countries, as well as Arab countries, about other Arab countries, but I'm sure that leaders in offended countries would know that others were saying things behind their backs without having to read it in Wikileaks.  The bulk of the juicy stuff was just personal emails from one politician to another that was never meant for public consumption.

(No subject)
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2013, 10:11:31 AM »
They should let him go.
???  ??

(No subject)
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2013, 10:35:54 AM »
At the very least on bail

(No subject)
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2013, 10:48:03 AM »
What Bradley Manning did was wrong and he should have served some time for it.  Now, he deserves to go free.  He leaked a large amount of information to an outside source and despite how relevant that information was, the fact of the matter is that he was an active member of the military and broke the law.

But the tactics they have used against Bradley Manning the entire time they have held him in goes against our Bill of Rights in more ways than one.  If they had gone through the judicial process properly I would have no problem if Manning went to prison for a few years.  But our government is not currently interested in providing an actual case against Manning.  They are looking to scare the shit outta anyone that is considering speaking out against them.  No one wants to be in the same position that manning has been put in, it's a gigantic scare tactic.

Offline Nonsensei

Re:
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 10:55:16 AM »
Quote from: "commonsense822"
What Bradley Manning did was wrong and he should have served some time for it.  Now, he deserves to go free.  He leaked a large amount of information to an outside source and despite how relevant that information was, the fact of the matter is that he was an active member of the military and broke the law.

But the tactics they have used against Bradley Manning the entire time they have held him in goes against our Bill of Rights in more ways than one.  If they had gone through the judicial process properly I would have no problem if Manning went to prison for a few years.  But our government is not currently interested in providing an actual case against Manning.  They are looking to scare the shit outta anyone that is considering speaking out against them.  No one wants to be in the same position that manning has been put in, it's a gigantic scare tactic.

I couldn't have said it better. What really bothers me about this is that the government is making an example out of him and tossing due process and a whole bunch of other laws right out the Window without even batting an eye. As if our judicial system and rights only apply if and when the government chooses.
And on the wings of a dream so far beyond reality
All alone in desperation now the time has come
Lost inside you\'ll never find, lost within my own mind
Day after day this misery must go on

Offline SGOS

(No subject)
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 11:10:24 AM »
One thing that seemed strange to me was that most of it was political gossip meant for "your eyes only." Why did the government amass this stuff in one large data base that was so easy to get to?  If I emailed or received something for "your eyes only," I might save it to a personal file in case I ever needed it, but I wouldn't let it get into a common data base.

(No subject)
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 03:10:41 PM »
He's a hero under torture.  Whistleblowers are heroes in spite of this Administration's actions.
Kimberly (HSBUH) aka Baroness Sylvia von Zurich (formerly a Goldwater Conservative) endorses the Meadow Party's Bill N' Opus for the 2016 Presidential election!

(No subject)
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 03:16:39 PM »
He's both a hero and a traitor.  He's a traitor to the government but a hero to the country.

His leaks embarrassed the US by exposing our crimes.  None of his leaks provided actual aid and comfort to the enemy, but they did provide a "see we were right about the US" to anyone - friend or foe - that opposed the US war machine.

1000 days without a trial is a clear violation of the right to a speedy and public trial, even taking into consideration the fact that he is in military custody instead of civilian custody.  Charges should be dismissed on that basis.
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(No subject)
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 03:22:13 PM »
I see two issues here, most of you seem to think that he's a hero for leaking the documents and should protected by whistleblower laws.  Issue with that is how he did it.  Secondly, you are talking like he isn't getting due process.  He very much is.  The thing that keeps delaying his trial is that the defense keeps changing things up, which then must be turned over to the prosecution to get familiar with and argue against it.  The latest was the whistle blower defense that was rejected.  I will agree that he was treated poorly when he was at Quantico, and the judge in the case has already had him moved and will reduce his sentence some because of it.

(No subject)
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2013, 03:29:40 PM »
The Nobel Prize Committee should take the award they gave to Drone-Strike Obama and give it to Manning for bravely exposing war crimes at great personal risk.

He is a traitor because that is a legal term.  The government comes up with the definition, and even though Manning did the right thing he fits the legal definition.  He did what he did - disobey the Government - out of loyalty to Constitution and Country.
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