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All Darren Wilson Does is Win

Started by lumpymunk, August 22, 2014, 01:25:58 AM

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zarus tathra

#60
Sounds like a "philosophy" that's very prone to contradiction, not to mention that it's just a "humanized" version of the presumptuous sense of "duty" I said was stupid.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Icarus

Quote from: zarus tathra on August 27, 2014, 07:32:32 AM
Sounds like a "philosophy" that's very prone to contradiction.

Elaborate, otherwise that's just an empty statement designed to avoid providing an intelligent response, just like sarcasm.

zarus tathra

I don't have to say anything more. Your basic assumption that they shouldn't have any fear of their surroundings is stupid enough.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Icarus

#63
Quote from: zarus tathra on August 27, 2014, 07:38:38 AM
I don't have to say anything more. Your basic assumption that they shouldn't have any fear of their surroundings is stupid enough.

When did I say that? Please quote me on it. I know I did say they have to be "wary" which does not mean without fear. Seriously, buy a dictionary, read it.

This in an internet forum where what we type is available to view at any time, outright lying to try and feel as though you've 'won' an argument is ridiculous.

zarus tathra

#64
I'm really insulting the very idea that people should both trust other people to risk their lives for them and expect them to do so without error or hesitation. For me, it's more of a general philosophical statement.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Hakurei Reimu

It's not like we put police cadets through extensive training to be able to make these kinds of snap decisions reliably. Nosir.
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aitm

Quote from: Icarus on August 27, 2014, 07:29:44 AM
You train cops to be wary but aware that the people they're dealing with are humans who live in their community. 

You do not need to train people that they are dealing with humans, nor do you need to train police to be wary...the uniform already does that. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that people expect people wearing a uniform to not have anxiety and confusion and very real f-ing fear. When a cop points a gun at you, I am very confident that the vast majority of those cops who have ever done such, are pretty afraid as well.

"I am going to bow up my chest and tell the cop to fuck off" is the very first sign that while not a Darwin winner, the soon to be possibly dead thinks that the person wearing a uniform is somehow immune from making a bad decision.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

stromboli

I'm pretty sure that your average cop is not a psychologist or rocket scientist that got bored with it and decided to wear a badge. I worked enough with cops as a firefighter to know that a share of them are little more than schoolyard bullies now become adults. Big cities that can afford police academies and can hire highly trained officers are more than matched by cities or towns that do little more than on the job training. And cops are part of a system that insists they watch each other's backs and don't betray secrets or mistakes.

I treat cops with respect because to do otherwise is stupid. I do not know the circumstances with Wilson or Michael Brown, but I know enough to be courteous and not give them a reason to be hostile to me. I think that elements of racism are involved, but Brown may certainly have done something to elevate the situation. Too bad, either way.

Hakurei Reimu

To some extent, the job description of the police officer is to put up with the public's bullshit and stupidity to some extent. The fact that we have jaywalking laws in the first place is to do just that. Jaywalking poses much greater risk to the person who is jaywalking than to the cars that would hit them, yet it is the jaywalker that gets the fine. So, yeah. Putting up with the public's stupidity is part of the job. As such, the police officer is the responsible person on the scene to resolve any incident in a peaceful manner. Hell, police officers are expected to bring in murderers and rapists alive and unharmed if possible â€" if they find an escaped murderer holed up somewhere and he surrenders immediately, that murderer does not face summary execution even if the police know that he killed someone while on the run.

If a police officer has to shoot to resolve a jaywalking incident, then something has gone horribly wrong. As the person on scene with responsibility for what happened, Officer Darren Wilson bears responsibility for his bad decision.
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zarus tathra

And sometimes there are people who are just assholes asking to be shot. Ever think of that?
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Icarus

Quote from: aitm on August 27, 2014, 06:58:38 PM
You do not need to train people that they are dealing with humans, nor do you need to train police to be wary...the uniform already does that. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that people expect people wearing a uniform to not have anxiety and confusion and very real f-ing fear. When a cop points a gun at you, I am very confident that the vast majority of those cops who have ever done such, are pretty afraid as well.

"I am going to bow up my chest and tell the cop to fuck off" is the very first sign that while not a Darwin winner, the soon to be possibly dead thinks that the person wearing a uniform is somehow immune from making a bad decision.

I think that depends on the person. To some people, yes it's common sense; to others, not so much. Military personnel (correct me if I'm wrong) are trained to point their gun at a target they're intending to shoot. Cops tend to have a bad habit of pointing their gun at protesters and civilians (from what I've seen in pictures and heard about in the media), the problem being the officers are viewing people of their community as a threat. I'm not saying they  should not have their gun drawn or view people as a potential threat. I just think that a cop can raise his gun a few inches and shoot before the potential threat makes a move to suggest he/she is a real threat (reaching quickly for a gun). If their reaction time doesn't allow for that, they shouldn't be a cop.

aitm

Unfortunately the people best suited to be police officers rarely want to be police officers
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Shiranu

Quote from: zarus tathra on August 27, 2014, 08:49:17 PM
And sometimes there are people who are just assholes asking to be shot. Ever think of that?

Oh, that makes it okay then.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

zarus tathra

?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Hakurei Reimu

Your opinion is worth very little.

Contrary to what you may believe, the job of the police officer is not to shoot people. His job is to keep the public order. Sometimes that necessitates shooting some people, but it's not actually part of the job and is near the bottom of the list of desirable outcomes.
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