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All Darren Wilson Does is Win

Started by lumpymunk, August 22, 2014, 01:25:58 AM

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Moralnihilist

Quote from: stromboli on August 26, 2014, 07:42:10 AM
The issues are racism and use of deadly force, not gun ownership.

^THIS^
Science doesn't give a damn about religions, because "damns" are not measurable units and therefore have no place in research. As soon as it's possible to detect damns, we'll quantize perdition and number all the levels of hell. Until then, science doesn't care.

baronvonrort

#46
Quote from: stromboli on August 26, 2014, 07:42:10 AM
The issue isn't gun ownership- it is racism versus overreaction by the cop in particular. Racism involved? Likely. Why? Just look at the level of representation on the force- a largely black community being policed by a nearly all white police force and governed by a nearly all white city council. Sounds like a built in bias to me.

The other issue is justification of deadly force. Without knowing all the facts, I can't state specifically, but in my opinion it was not justified.

So racism is why a 6'4 300lb gentle giant stood over a store owner to steal a box of cigars,racism is why he was jaywalking,racism allows him to assault a cop,wow the poor victim.

The fact is a cop can use deadly force in the USA-
QuoteA case may arise where the officer attempts to arrest a misdemeanant who assaults the officer and flees.If such an assault is a felony the person may be treated the same as any other felon.

Where the person who is resisting arrest has committed a felony and the arrest is a proper one,the officer may use deadly force if its use is necessary to subdue the arrestee
scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3737&context=jclc
If you assault a cop that is a felony,the gun discharged in the Police car during a struggle

QuotePlease stop helping us- How liberals make it harder for blacks to succeed,Jason L Riley.

Should be a good book,lol
nypost.com/2014/06/28/how-liberals-make-it-harder-for-blacks-to-succeed

baronvonrort

Quote from: Hydra009 on August 25, 2014, 11:56:39 PM
Interesting statist...anecdote.  It's strange that you picked Australia as an example, though.





http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/261-280/tandi269.html

Your link says a fall in firearm suicides is why our gun death rate is lower, of course it will not mention how hanging has replaced shooting for the most common method of suicide.




josephpalazzo

Quote from: stromboli on August 26, 2014, 07:42:10 AM
Herp derp yada yada. Seems like the debate always swings by this bus stop on anything involving guns. Cops have had guns since like I don't know, forever. The issue isn't gun ownership- it is racism versus overreaction by the cop in particular. Racism involved? Likely. Why? Just look at the level of representation on the force- a largely black community being policed by a nearly all white police force and governed by a nearly all white city council. Sounds like a built in bias to me.

The other issue is justification of deadly force. Without knowing all the facts, I can't state specifically, but in my opinion it was not justified. Unless there is specific intent by the perp against the officer, justification of deadly force does not apply. In my opinion the Trayvon Martin decision looms large here, because it will color all such incidents now and in the future.

The issues are racism and use of deadly force, not gun ownership.

As I've mentioned before we still don't know if the cop has a history that indicates he is a racist. Perhaps we will know more on this as things will unfold. But then you could have racism in reverse: black kid approached by a black cop behaves properly; same kid approached by a white cop starts to act up.

Secondly, the use of deadly force is not totally unrelated to gun ownership: just recently I met someone ( a relative of a friend) who proudly showed me his permits, about two dozens, that allow him to carry a concealed weapon in all those states. Perhaps this guy will never kill someone, but just the idea that he has that kind of advantage over me and most folks who don't carry a concealed weapon is frightening. So if a cop has been trained to unload when confronted by a felon, I can see why.

zarus tathra

According to a sizable group of eyewitnesses, Michael Brown was kicking the shit out of the cop and bum-rushing him before he was shot. I don't remember seeing this mentioned ANYWHERE in this thread, which is insane.

Somehow even the medical examiner hired to look over this case hasn't inspected the cop for injuries, the amount of selective blindness is insane.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

josephpalazzo

Quote from: zarus tathra on August 26, 2014, 02:02:43 PM
According to a sizable group of eyewitnesses, Michael Brown was kicking the shit out of the cop and bum-rushing him before he was shot. I don't remember seeing this mentioned ANYWHERE in this thread, which is insane.

Somehow even the medical examiner hired to look over this case hasn't inspected the cop for injuries, the amount of selective blindness is insane.

That wasn't mentioned before because it hasn't been confirmed. The article you've linked says a "dozen witnesses" but no mention who they are. Secondly, the reporting in which the article gives details are from two "friends", who are not eyewitnesses but friends of the cop, one of them, "Josie â€" who said she heard the version from Wilson’s girlfriend  reporting", IOW, she is reporting hearsay. Now, I'm not saying the facts are wrong, just that they are unconfirmed.

Shiranu

Eyewitness reports also hold almost no legal weight and are almost useless in court. Surely someone as politically savvy as yourself zarus should know this.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

zarus tathra

#52
I know that eyewitness reports are useless. But seriously, a cursory examination of the cop (or his medical records, if he didn't have skull fractures he should have healed by now) should clear up the whole matter. If there aren't any injuries, then the pd are liars and the riots are justified. If the injuries are anywhere near as bad as they say they are, then nobody will stand up for the rioters and they'll disperse if they have any intelligence at all.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Shiranu

#53
1. It's not FPD saying he is injured, it is idiots online and Fox News (and other conservative outlets).

http://aattp.org/cnn-host-slams-fox-for-reporting-false-story-about-darren-wilsons-eye-socket-injury-video-2/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2731311/Police-officer-shot-Michael-Brown-did-NOT-suffer-broken-eye-socket-did-hospital-swollen-face-deadly-altercation.html

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/170455-cnn-report-source-denies-fractured-eye-socket-injury-darren-wilson/

His face was reportedly swollen, but there is nothing out of FPD or the hospital saying he had any broken bones or any serious injuries. So I would take the, "The cop was beaten nearly to death" with a grain of salt.

As for baron or w/e...

Let's assume he hit the cop; the last bullet to hit him was most likely in the head, after he had walked away. The bullet wounds are consistent with him having surrendered and in a non-threatening position 4+ feet away. That is execution, pure and simple.

And yeah, I'm sure race (or more accurately imo, socio-economics) doesn't come into it at all..



Wilson also did not report the incident nor attempted to resuscitate Brown, who's body (according to the autopsy) was left in the street for several hours before it was collected. Is that really the way you expect police officers to behave, because if it is please ship your ass back to Aussie land as soon as possible.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

josephpalazzo

Those articles are just reporting that the claim, made by Fox News on the cop's injury, wasn't properly investigated. The only report so far that may have any credibility is from the Police chief who said that Wilson was hospitalized and treated for a swollen face.  It's best to wait for the grand jury.

zarus tathra

It would be strange for a hospital to release anything as private and official as medical records without some kind of court order. Doing it just to appease the crowd would be a pretty slippery first step towards mob rule.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Hakurei Reimu

Quote from: baronvonrort on August 25, 2014, 11:31:27 PM
I worked with some pretty cool African Americans in Boston,perhaps they got off their asses and achieved something instead of making excuses.

Are you saying whitefellas are exempt from poverty in the USA?
It's statements like these that make you such a target for ridicule. Whites are on the average more well-off than blacks in this country. It's an important determiner of whether or not you die by gunshot, because the poorer you are, the more likely you are to live in a poor area, which predisposes you to be the perpetrator or victim of gunfire. If you do not correct for this, your statistic is misleading.

Seriously, this should be bleeding obvious to you. But then, you wouldn't be part of the Comedy Show if you weren't hopelessly oblivious.
Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
(she bites!)
Spinny Miko Avatar shamelessly ripped off from Iosys' Neko Miko Reimu

PickelledEggs

Maybe baronovort is not as smart as he seems? Not that he seemed too smart to begin with..

Sent from your mom


zarus tathra

Quote from: Icarus on August 25, 2014, 06:31:08 PM
No intelligent response, therefore revert to sarcasm. Seems like you're having difficulties with the whole "thinking" process.

Do you not see how presumptuous it is to expect others to risk their lives, to face their deaths "without fear," simply out of a sense of "duty?" Why does the statement that cops shouldn't be taught to fear their surroundings deserve anything but scorn?
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Icarus

#59
Quote from: zarus tathra on August 27, 2014, 06:54:45 AM
Do you not see how presumptuous it is to expect others to risk their lives, to face their deaths "without fear," simply out of a sense of "duty?" Why does the statement that cops shouldn't be taught to fear their surroundings deserve anything but scorn?

"If cops are trained to constantly fear their conditions, then the people who live under them are going to fear them."
and
"Yeah we should train them to be like samurai and not fear death. Make them sit under waterfalls for hours on end and have them duck under a swinging sword as their final test before graduation."
Are two very different things, you chose to misinterpret what Brian said because you have problems understanding words, as you showed in your other thread about trying to redefine words. The other option to having cops constantly fearing their conditions is not to train them to face all situations without fear, that should be obvious. You train cops to be wary but aware that the people they're dealing with are humans who live in their community.