Author Topic: Faith for Sale  (Read 773 times)

Offline renasimplified (OP)

Faith for Sale
« on: August 18, 2014, 01:09:47 AM »
I had to go to church today :( I get dragged there every sunday and all. I thought I was going to get a free pass to do what I wanted in the back, but husband came back from volunteering early. Oh wells.

Basically the sermon was about faith.  40 minutes and it all rounded out to be was this "Without faith you cannot please god(zilla). You were created by god(zilla), to earnestly seek him, and believe he exists."

I wrote a poem last night about this very topic, because it is one that grates on my nerves the most, and not just because it gets thrown in my face so much.

For a God who is suppossed to be all knowing, from the begining of time to the end, how can I believe he exists when he supossedly created such a lose-lose situation for people?  He apparently gave us a rationing, thinking, pattern reconizing, intelligent brain so that we can ignore all those red flags and believe based on nothing? Oh, and If you don't it's hell for you? Then, as a giant 'Fuck you" to the human race, he tells you to believe he exists, or else.  Even though he knows everything to come (he told noah about a giant flood and all, right?) he still chooses to have a small race of sheep herders carry the proof through generation to generation. Nope, couldn't wait for tweeting, facebooks, or even POSTAL MAIL. Naw, and then he forgets all the rest of the people on earth. oops.

The funniest part, this pastor was all like "God(zilla) gives you these blessings, you see, and often wants you to give them right back.  Like abraham and Issac, he is testing your faith."

So let me get this strait. You're going to give me something and then take it back? Or else I have been proven faithless and by your own words that means I cant please you?  That's called indian giving, and only asscrack givers do that.

At the end he said that faith is hard and hurts, but nothing is more rewarding than following god(zilla).

Well shit. I don't like pain and i'm pretty lazy, so I guess all I have are sneezes, orgasms, skydiving, eating awesome foods from all over the world, videogames... oh wait...

:) Oh well, here's my poem too!

Relative Hope

Godly men sing to entice the wicked,
into a world filled with illusion.
thier calls of glory, of wealth and of hope,
render the weak unable to cope.
Ah! But this hope glistens with lies,
A ruse, a painting, distortion, disguise.
take, for instance, the notion of god,
his notion of hope, isn't it odd,
that to have hope, to live,
is to believe by faith and freely give,
to one who assured his own concealment,
though all this time, one could lament,
without proof faith is required of me,
for a chance of hope, and to be happy.
but a small few, unfrightened by threats of death,
all alone threatened with a hopeless last breath,
say, "We'll study the Earth,
the tangible between death and birth,
there we'll find hope,
and the way to elope,
this faithlessness we endure,
to certainly ensure,
a future bright as day,
a hope filled array."
This may be me,
and that may be you,
hope is relative,
so each future is bright, too.

Re: Faith for Sale
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2014, 02:15:51 AM »
Haven't seen you around in a while. Welcome back.

Yes, the emphasis on faith; it is almost like they know that they have nothing substantial to offer and hope that simply pretending that is somehow superior will keep people from questioning why they don't. And mostly they are right.
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" Voltaire�s Candide

Offline renasimplified (OP)

Re: Faith for Sale
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2014, 02:29:50 AM »
That rings true :) I am surrounded by evangelical christians, and back when I was just questioning, the only answers that came were to just have faith, faith and prayer.  How insane.  If I ignore a festering sore, I bet I will reap the consequences later... :| but just "having faith" became like a drug to keep you from either having to deal with situations, or take responsibility for things you need to. (like marriage woes, responsible finaces, childraising, ect.)

ah, thanks btw!  I couldn't be on here too much for personal reasons :) but I'm sneaking back now and then :)

Offline SGOS

Re: Faith for Sale
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2014, 06:05:11 AM »
I hear you.  I was fed the same load of crap.  And the part about the preacher going on about it for 40 minutes resonates.  I remember realizing that my minister wasn't inspired by the glory of God, but that every week, he had to think up some speech to make to the congregation.  I wondered if he had been given a list of suitable topics to cover, and each week he could pick one.  Oh, this week, he chose to talk about faith.  He could of told me what I needed to know about it in two minutes, but he goes on and on for 40 minutes, because he has to fill the time.  I felt sorry for him.

But that was a time when I called myself a Christian.  I never really believed all of it, but I acted like I did, because I was taught to do that.  I assumed that everyone else was doing that too.  And it was OK pretending to be good Christians.  But it was kind of a rude awakening when I realized some people weren't pretending (or maybe they were just pretending not to be pretending), but it dawned on me that no, they really believed this stuff, and didn't see it as some nice metaphors with helpful lessons.  For some it was absolute and real... and for no reason that I could understand.

But I don't see anything wrong with junking faith.  You either believe something or you don't.  Faith is useless.  It means nothing, and it has no foundation in the reality of experiences we use to decide whether trust is warranted or not.

Offline SGOS

Re: Faith for Sale
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2014, 06:47:01 AM »
Faith seems to be like just another one of many rituals involved in worship.  Lighting candles at the beginning of the service is cool when some acolyte comes out in a special robe with his candle lighter and turns on a line of candles in the ascending order of a graceful candelabra.  But what does it mean?  Yeah it's cool, but it doesn't answer the important question: "Who is this deity that we are obligated to worship?  Does he really exist?"  That question loomed in my mind as a child.

Faith is cool I guess, but like ritual, it ignores the important question too.  It's supposed to ignore the question.  That's what faith is.  It is supposed to guide us straight to knowledge by bypassing the question.  Fine!  Like the other rituals, just bypass the question and get caught up and distracted by the ritual.  You may or may not have acquired faith, but whether you do or not, the important question still looms before us like an immovable rock in a harbor.  I could never ignore the question.  It always haunted me.  It seemed like it was much too important to ignore.  The question is central to all religion.  But the minister counsels us to ignore that which is central to the very thing we are supposed to be doing.

It's an unsolvable dilemma.  And rationally, it should concern us, but while mankind can be rational, he seldom is, and religious nonsense persists.

Re: Faith for Sale
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2014, 08:15:14 AM »
Yes, the emphasis on faith; it is almost like they know that they have nothing substantial to offer and hope that simply pretending that is somehow superior will keep people from questioning why they don't. And mostly they are right.
They manufacture a non-tangible item for sale and have built into our society a requirement for you to buy it. Original sin is the only way to demand  your purchase of their product. You can be 100% pure and totally without sin? Oh, no you can't, you got it when you were born, buddy!
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline GrinningYMIR

Re: Faith for Sale
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 09:02:28 AM »
They manufacture a non-tangible item for sale and have built into our society a requirement for you to buy it. Original sin is the only way to demand  your purchase of their product. You can be 100% pure and totally without sin? Oh, no you can't, you got it when you were born, buddy!

Sounds like indulgences, not the best move ever for Catholics.


Going to church is always a pain, it's hot and stuffy and there's always a lot of people listening to one guy drone on and on about god or death or whatever. I have the greatest desire to whip out my phone every time I go to one but I can't because that "would be disrespectful"

Come on man, am I to believe that they'd be nice to me if I were to be found out as an atheist?


I know how you feeel ren, never a fun things especially when you're surrounded by the evangelicals, try not to let em get you too down though yeah?
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Offline doorknob

Re: Faith for Sale
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2014, 10:36:18 AM »
if some one asks if I have faith I say I've got none.

I too am surrounded by chritians. We get along by me not mentioning that I'm an atheist. I don't want to debate it with any one and I don't want religion jammed down my throat.

As far as going to church goes You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming. I hate going it's total waist of my time not to mention bores me to tears.

Re: Faith for Sale
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2014, 06:23:31 PM »
But I don't see anything wrong with junking faith.  You either believe something or you don't.  Faith is useless.  It means nothing, and it has no foundation in the reality of experiences we use to decide whether trust is warranted or not.

Some people do find it useful. At least, they say they do, and I believe them. The religious always say that "everything is permitted" if there's no God, but that's only in their minds. I say let the rabid dog keep his own leash in that case.
It took science to do what people imagine God can do.
--ApostateLois

"The closer you are to God the further you are from the truth."
--St Giordano

Offline SGOS

Re: Faith for Sale
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2014, 07:02:18 PM »
Some people do find it useful. At least, they say they do, and I believe them. The religious always say that "everything is permitted" if there's no God, but that's only in their minds. I say let the rabid dog keep his own leash in that case.
Well, if they really can't control their behavior without their faith, then I have to agree.  But that's not much of a testimony to their life skills.