Intelligence and woo

[widdershins]

As we are all aware there is a negative correlation between intelligence and belief in woo, but every once in a while you run into someone for whom that correlation doesn't seem to apply.  My sister-in-law, for instance.  She's college educated, very intelligent and very informed, yet she has deeply ingrained beliefs in woo.  And I'm not just talking about her church attendance.  She regularly visits a psychic, and not just for entertainment purposes.  She will discuss with my wife sometimes the things her psychic told her, trying to work out what, exactly, it means.  Because of course a psychic can't simply say, "You're going to find $5 on the street at 6:27 on Monday".  Recently the mother-in-law went into the hospital and in one of the first conversations with my wife she relayed that her daughter had had a dream that she was going to die a couple of nights before.  Like all believers in woo, when it turned out to be unrelated to reality (she's doing fine now, but it was touch and go for a bit), it's simply never thought about again.

I can't help but seriously wonder, how does this happen?  How does someone otherwise so intelligent give any credence whatsoever to this type of trash?  The things she says are the types of things stupid people say.  The Snookies of the world would wonder if their daughter's dream meant their mother was going to die, not the college educated, well informed people who are informed enough about the goings on of the world that they've spent time protesting (don't remember what, but it was a noble cause).  I realize anyone can fall into a bit of woo, regardless of intelligence, but this isn't "a bit".  This is belief in psychics, dream predictions, homeopathic remedies, crystal healing...the entire fertilizer cart of bullshit.

Have any of you known anyone like this?  Have any idea why an intelligent person would allow themselves to be fooled like this?  I want to understand the psychology around this.  Usually I'm pretty good at getting a grasp of the psychology, but on this one I'm drawing a total blank.

[Mister Agenda]

We never employ our intelligence more deviously than when trying to justify not changing our beliefs.

[Worldshatter]

Well considering the generalizations these "psychics" often speak/write towards a lot of their predictions can generally come what some people would consider "true" regardless of how vaguely or coincidentally true it was. I know of educated people who still hold an avid belief in woo simply due to the fact that they feel it's nearly always correct... hell even I've looked at a psychic reading every now and again and went "you know what that's actually pretty well describes what happened". However going back to your original point it seems to just be a case in which even though she is an educated individual she wants to believe in these things.. it seems to be tapping into the base human want to know the future or have some grasp upon events that could happen and although I'm with you in saying that it's complete nonsense some people just refuse to accept that there's no certain way of telling whats going to happen next and  choose to believe that they can predict the future through their dreams.

[billhilly]

We never employ our intelligence more deviously than when trying to justify not changing our beliefs.

Damn skippy!

High quality cognitive dissonance takes mental horse power.

[aitm]

I didn't get from the op if she was actually religious or not. But of course the babble is very firmly against soothsaying and fortune telling. That could be a point. I can look it up for you but I gotta pee right now....sorry

[St Giordano Bruno]

I know of a few"intelligent woosters"   in astrology in particular who are highly eloquent in what they do. They direct their interest in one particular area such as in the entertainment industry in Hollywood but show very little interest in science. One is extremely well read up on the biographies of Hollywood actors and her bookcase is full of them, a few crime novels as well as all her collection of astrology books. She also describes herself as being "psyhic".

[Thumpalumpacus]

Compartmentalization

[St Giordano Bruno]

Here is one we are very familiar with in Australia and almost certain to become Australia's next Prime Minister. It is Tony Abbott who is a Rhodes Scholar He initially wanted to get into the priesthood and he said "The priesthood gives someone the awesome power to consecrate bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ" Is that not woo or what?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Here is one we are very familiar with in Australia and almost certain to become Australia's next Prime Minister. It is Tony Abbott who is a Rhodes Scholar He initially wanted to get into the priesthood and he said "The priesthood gives someone the power to consecrate bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ" Is that not woo or what?

I think it's funny that most Catholilcs don't think of themselves practicing cannibalism, but if their doctrine has it right, that is exactly what they are doing.

[WitchSabrina]

I know pretty secular people who are mad about tarot reading, palm readings, chinese astrology -I got my depresssion explained to me by my chinese zodiac sign by one of them - other astrologies, i-chi, fengshui, insert similar bullshit here...this and that. They are all, but all are university graduates. Also my older aunt and her daughters. Uggh. They believe someone who knows what they are doing can 'curse you with a spell'.   They are all highly educated, wealthy people who traveled the world, pursued high standing lives.

I actually have an idea about this. This people are unconsciously or conciously 'learning' how stupid religions are. But as they are believers in core and they are addicted to believe, they are also addicted to something unexplained and 'Sipiritual' in their lives which based on a delusion, something what we call woo woo. So they start to incline to other bullshit, cannot alltogether get rid of religion either and mix all of them taking their 'benign', 'promising' parts. Create their own system of woo in a way.

Pay attention, you'll see this happens in or after some sort of a rough patch in their lives, becomes more deliberate around those kind of experiences. This could even be a way to 'deal' with things in life. That's my observation anyway.

Well, as most of you know I've struggled with Woo for a lifetime.  But the single largest black hole of a question was my miraculous recovery after neck surgery.  Convinced I was some mixture of science and magic I couldn't figure out how I could be anything but special somehow.  People just don't recover as I did.  Then I wanted to question that and it led me to wonder about the power of the human mind when it comes to odd healing.  I figure in time science will make more extensive discoveries of what the human mind is capable of.  Till that comes along I just have to put theories and questions on the back burner.  I'm certain I don't believe in the Christian god but I remain plagued by questions.
I think what I find most troubling is that I don't see myself with some incredible brain power where I can help heal myself in such a way?  So while I wonder what the brain is capable of - I certainly question my own.

As my surgeon put it "If I could bottle and give out as prescription your will to be well I could retire!"

[PJS]

Compartmentalization as noted earlier in this thread is one factor, but belief bias and belief perseverance are also involved.

Consider this argument :

Premise 1 : Some communists are golfers
Premise 2 : All golfers are capitalists
Conclusion: Some communists are capitalists.

People have trouble seeing the validity of the conclusion, that it logically follows from the premises. Contrast these with examples where the conclusions are in line with our prior beliefs such as:

Premise 1: Some communists are golfers
Premise 2 : All golfers are Marxists
Conclusion: Some communists are Marxists

In experiments nearly all recognize the validity of that conclusion based on its premises. It is consistent with beliefs.

One more (courtesy of David Meyers et al)

Premise 1: Democrats support free speech
Premise 2: Dictators are not democrats
Conclusion: Dictators do not support free speech.

Many here will see that this conclusion does not follow but in experiments subjects often miss this.

We are better at seeing poor logic when it disagrees with our beliefs.

The second point is belief perseverance. This means that it takes a greater case-more compelling evidence-to dislodge a belief than it does to create one. This is likely a factor as well.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I know that when I was deconverting, in my teens, I spent a few years on the woo-train ... mainly belief in mental powers.  Somewhere along the line I read Broca's Brain, from Sagan, followed shortly by Flim-flam!, from James Randi. Those two books had a major influence on my thinking about how we know what we know.  I was perhaps eighteen or nineteen.  Anyway, I got to see my woo-bound friends treat me exactly the same way for questioning their beliefs as the Southern Baptists had for questioning their dogma.  At that point, I decided to stop looking for magical answers and spend my time instead training myself to think.

[WitchSabrina]

Whatever, whenever something looks impossible, miraculous, very highly unlikely to happen, science will come and explain how it happened in a very non-mgaical way, .

Totally agree with that.
Using the word miracle is always dicey.  Let's just say I *should* have been in the hospital for several days like all the other patients who've had this surgery(according to Dr, nurses and exit nurse) . I walked out less than a day later, went home and other than keeping the neck brace on I was fine.  Just kinda weird.  No I don't really think I'm special.  lol

[WitchSabrina]

Whatever, whenever something looks impossible, miraculous, very highly unlikely to happen, science will come and explain how it happened in a very non-mgaical way, .

Totally agree with that.
Using the word miracle is always dicey.  Let's just say I *should* have been in the hospital for several days like all the other patients who've had this surgery(according to Dr, nurses and exit nurse) . I walked out less than a day later, went home and other than keeping the neck brace on I was fine.  Just kinda weird.  No I don't really think I'm special.  lol

Yes you can be Bri, why not? I am using special here as high biological capacity and will.

Who was that one of the English actors broke his spine falling back 3 floors and walked out of hospital a week later after surgery which as a result he was declared as cannot walk? That is something special in my opinion.

But then I cannot gather a will to stop smoking so I should shut up,   :oops:

At the 7 day follow up appt with my surgeon we had an interesting talk (well he talked I listened) about the *power* (which sounds bad - sorry)  - maybe abilities sounds better - of the human brain.  He's very interested to pursue the matter and as I understand investigates it still.
Let's just say it was weird.  And not my first weird experience when in hospital or surgery.  
weird

Some things are just.......weird.  Doesn't make them god nor magic....but still weird.
Maybe we should have a thread going on the unexplained weird stuff? Or would that invite theists to sell us jesus?

so........ yeah.  I hope in my life that there's more information discovered about people who heal with zeal.
 :shock:

[AllPurposeAtheist]

All I can say is I'm a magic train engineer..WOO WOOO! :P