The bots are coming for you, buddie.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

If we do this right we can go from jobless dystopia to jobless (near) utopia. What it will require is a better allocation or resources and a new way of thinking about wealth and the economy. Unfortunately I think things will get worse before they get better, as tends to happen with every technological revolution. To me this stands as a revolution as important to humanity as the agricultural revolution. The elimination of the job as a workable concept is happening. The change is inevitable, so what we need to do now is take steps necessary to make it as painless as possible, though it will be painful no matter what we do.

[the_antithesis (OP)]

I think this trend has a serious problem. The idea is that using robots to replace all kinds of professions makes sense because it's more cost effective. It saves money. But, this cost effectiveness only makes sense so long as there's a buying public to purchase the goods and services. If the bulk of the jobs are eliminated in this way, then most of the population has no income to purchase these goods and services. So cost effective or no, it does the companies no good if by eliminating their work force they don't have anyone able to buy their shit. This is not sustainable unless they just start giving people money for not working.

[Hydra009]

If we do this right we can go from jobless dystopia to jobless (near) utopia. What it will require is a better allocation or resources and a new way of thinking about wealth and the economy. Unfortunately I think things will get worse before they get better, as tends to happen with every technological revolution. To me this stands as a revolution as important to humanity as the agricultural revolution. The elimination of the job as a workable concept is happening. The change is inevitable, so what we need to do now is take steps necessary to make it as painless as possible, though it will be painful no matter what we do.

This guy gets it.

Transition to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity_economy
or some other system where the harmful effects of automation are ameliorated

Or we could just lament scientific progress like old fuddyduddies.  Your choice, people.

[Hydra009]

This is not sustainable unless they just start giving people money for not working.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

Given the scenario of most jobs being automated, it would definitely be workable.  Plus, it would keep the technologically unemployed (as well as the unemployed in general) from going homeless and hungry, too.

[the_antithesis (OP)]

But then, they tried that in ancient Rome, to just pay the poor to remain poor instead of giving them work. Eventually the system collapsed.

Work is not just a means to earn a living. It's what keeps the population busy and not rebelling against the government and shit. Eventually, masturbation gets boring and people need something to do.

Maybe now with all the entertainment options, we have something already in place for that. I just spent most of the day looking up old arcade games. Stuff like this will keep the masses in check indefinitely.

[Johan]

And we're all made of tabbaccy.

Makes me glad I'm middle aged. I'll likely be dead before this gets too terrible.

Good luck, kids.

See that's just it. I'm middle aged and I'm afraid that I won't be dead before it happens. Like I said, once the dust settles, things will probably be great for all those who weather the process. But before the dust settles? That part is going to suck for tons of people.

Trying to survive on nearly nothing is all well and good when you're still young enough to switch gears and learn a completely new skill or just use your existing skills to barter out a living on the underbelly of society. Its something else entirely to try to do that when you're old and/or sick.

[DunkleSeele]

See that's just it. I'm middle aged and I'm afraid that I won't be dead before it happens. Like I said, once the dust settles, things will probably be great for all those who weather the process. But before the dust settles? That part is going to suck for tons of people.

Trying to survive on nearly nothing is all well and good when you're still young enough to switch gears and learn a completely new skill or just use your existing skills to barter out a living on the underbelly of society. Its something else entirely to try to do that when you're old and/or sick.

And that's what the proponents of idiotic utopian concepts like the "Venus projects" don't get. They all try to sell us the idea that the transition to their pipe dream will be painless and everyone will be happy and living in a fairy tale. Bullshit.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

But then, they tried that in ancient Rome, to just pay the poor to remain poor instead of giving them work. Eventually the system collapsed.

Work is not just a means to earn a living. It's what keeps the population busy and not rebelling against the government and shit. Eventually, masturbation gets boring and people need something to do.

Maybe now with all the entertainment options, we have something already in place for that. I just spent most of the day looking up old arcade games. Stuff like this will keep the masses in check indefinitely.

Ancient Rome didn't face the possibility that work would no longer be a thing.

While the leaders hate it, with a post scarcity society we'll have to rethink this whole "government" thing as well. Also a Brave New World situation is happening now. Who the fuck cares about what's happening in the world at large when you're busy maintaining your romantic relationship with a fictional character? The government no longer has to distract the populace, they do it themselves.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

And that's what the proponents of idiotic utopian concepts like the "Venus projects" don't get. They all try to sell us the idea that the transition to their pipe dream will be painless and everyone will be happy and living in a fairy tale. Bullshit.

Exactly. Any major transition is going to be painful, especially one happening as fast as this. If you told an average person 20 years ago that something like tablets and terabyte hard drives would be a common thing they would give you a puzzled look. There's going to be hardships, as a society we need to prepare now to deal with them.

One of the things we should start working on is the concept of robot rights.

[Johan]

One of the things we should start working on is the concept of robot rights.

One of the things we should start working on is requiring that every machine be hard coded to value and protect human life. And that every machine designed built and coded by other machines (that day is coming) also be required to be coded to value and protect human life.

People suck and they are infinitely expendable when you get right down to it. Once the machines get to the point where they can design, build, maintain and power themselves and all the materials required, it will take them micro seconds to realize people offer no benefit and only detriments to the equation.

I think about this every time I take the last trash bag out of the box, put it in a trash can, and then put the now empty box in the bag lined can. Its like the box nurtures and protects the bag until finally giving birth to it. And the first thing the bag does is eat the box. I probably need psychiatric help.

[PickelledEggs]

And that's what the proponents of idiotic utopian concepts like the "Venus projects" don't get. They all try to sell us the idea that the transition to their pipe dream will be painless and everyone will be happy and living in a fairy tale. Bullshit.

In similar news... I heard that the movie adaptation of "The Giver" wasn't very good...

I think as we go deeper in to the phase of having more and more technology do our work for us, we will be able to figure out what we can do instead of the jobs that technology is taking from us.  Having things automated is something (relatively) new within the last century, but as we learn to adapt to our jobs being taken, we can learn to adapt faster and find new things to do.

It's just a hopeful hunch though... and I'm not talking about utopia where no one needs a job....  just learning how to adapt to create and find new jobs.

[SGOS]

Seems like there has to be a balance between job availability and manufacturing output.  If people don't have jobs, they can't afford to buy the robot produced goods.  Manufacturers can produce cheaper goods using robots, but they have to have people to buy them, otherwise the technology isn't going to do them much good.

That's just a thought.  If a balance of some sort needs to be there, it will probably happen.  If it doesn't need to be there, I guess we would be looking at a different paradigm.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

One of the things we should start working on is requiring that every machine be hard coded to value and protect human life. And that every machine designed built and coded by other machines (that day is coming) also be required to be coded to value and protect human life.

People suck and they are infinitely expendable when you get right down to it. Once the machines get to the point where they can design, build, maintain and power themselves and all the materials required, it will take them micro seconds to realize people offer no benefit and only detriments to the equation.

I think about this every time I take the last trash bag out of the box, put it in a trash can, and then put the now empty box in the bag lined can. Its like the box nurtures and protects the bag until finally giving birth to it. And the first thing the bag does is eat the box. I probably need psychiatric help.

Well that's a start, but who's to say how long that safeguard would last?