Author Topic: ITT We disclose our political biases  (Read 2935 times)

Offline zarus tathra (OP)

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2014, 09:27:06 PM »
Or the "strong", who became so on the back of the "weak", on the revenue brought to them by the "weak", using services provided to them by "the weak" to establish and protect their business have a social obligation to not abuse their power and to contribute something back to the kettle that made them "strong" in the first place.

That's only true of a shrinking, though not insubstantial subset of the "weak." And I would say that capitalism is a system in which the ignorant rule over those who are for the most part stronger and more knowledgeable than them, which allowed them to create that wealth to begin with. It's not hard to see the connection between the infinite moral obligation implied by the doctrine of "original sin" and infinitely expandable property rights.

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And the reason you aren't getting the answers you are looking for is normal people aren't locked into a rigid ideology.

That's debatable. They may not state their ideologies, and generally they don't, but the "unstated assumptions" that they refuse to question are an ideology in and of themselves. You are no different.

As for you in particular, anyone going over your posting history can see a very clear trend of "sticking up for the poor" and believing in a strong government to rule over them consisting of people who are for the most part anything but poor. The fact that you refuse to identify this pattern that should be obvious even to you is... suspicious.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 09:30:36 PM by zarus tathra »
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2014, 10:42:24 PM »
I don't know about the media, but responding to the title of this thread as far as I'm concerned, I don't have one particular label for my positions. For instance, on domestic policies, I tend to agree with Obama and the Democratic party, but on foreign policies, I tend to agree with the Republicans. On financial matters, I'm a conservative, but on social issues, I'm a liberal. In economics, I believe that capitalism is the best instrument to create wealth, but I don't believe in unfettered capitalism, that is, I believe that the government has an important role to play on oversight, that is as a referee, but in times of economic crisis, it must take an important role as a player. So, I'm basically a mixed bag.  :biggrin:
Pretty much bang on other than the foreign policy. I just try to be pragmatic.
Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Online Shiranu

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2014, 10:48:34 PM »
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As for you in particular, anyone going over your posting history can see a very clear trend of "sticking up for the poor" and believing in a strong government to rule over them consisting of people who are for the most part anything but poor. The fact that you refuse to identify this pattern that should be obvious even to you is... suspicious.

Yes, but I wouldn't say that defines my political views. There are plenty of ways I don't think the rich should be penalized so it would be inaccurate to say that is what I believe in it.

"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2014, 11:10:50 PM »
That's only true of a shrinking, though not insubstantial subset of the "weak." And I would say that capitalism is a system in which the ignorant rule over those who are for the most part stronger and more knowledgeable than them, which allowed them to create that wealth to begin with. It's not hard to see the connection between the infinite moral obligation implied by the doctrine of "original sin" and infinitely expandable property rights.
 
That's debatable. They may not state their ideologies, and generally they don't, but the "unstated assumptions" that they refuse to question are an ideology in and of themselves. You are no different.

As for you in particular, anyone going over your posting history can see a very clear trend of "sticking up for the poor" and believing in a strong government to rule over them consisting of people who are for the most part anything but poor. The fact that you refuse to identify this pattern that should be obvious even to you is... suspicious.
You don't have people figured out quite as well as you think you do.

Offline zarus tathra (OP)

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2014, 11:26:42 PM »
I don't really care.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Online Shiranu

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2014, 11:31:26 PM »
"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi

Offline zarus tathra (OP)

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2014, 11:34:24 PM »
And what do I lose, wise guru?
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2014, 12:02:53 AM »
I don't really care.
You should, it's pretty relevant to the responses you're getting.

Offline zarus tathra (OP)

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2014, 12:08:52 AM »
I would say that most of the unwillingness to answer is nothing more than self-deception/obfuscation, but of course, that's an interpretation that isn't favorable enough for your tastes.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2014, 12:21:45 AM »
I would say that most of the unwillingness to answer is nothing more than self-deception/obfuscation, but of course, that's an interpretation that isn't favorable enough for your tastes.
That is a massively over-simplified take on the sociology and psychology involved in biases.

Offline zarus tathra (OP)

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2014, 12:43:01 AM »
I'm not talking about the "psychology and sociology of biases," I'm talking about your own unwillingness to reveal your own biases.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Offline doorknob

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2014, 08:25:58 AM »
Or the "strong", who became so on the back of the "weak", on the revenue brought to them by the "weak", using services provided to them by "the weak" to establish and protect their business have a social obligation to not abuse their power and to contribute something back to the kettle that made them "strong" in the first place.

And that the services provided by "the weak" should go to providing for everyone and not just helping "the strong" as is unfortunately what too much of the kettle goes towards.

But nah, I'm sure you're right... "weaks" hate "strongs" and want freebies.

And the reason you aren't getting the answers you are looking for is normal people aren't locked into a rigid ideology.

I agree with most of this. I don't know that normal people aren't locked into rigid ideology though.

I'm tired of the rich complaining that, they worked hard to earn their money and blame the poor for being poor. It IS in fact the backs of the poor for which they got rich. And employers are greedier still. My poor sister is sick from all the stress she incurred from entry level jobs she's worked. If you won't pay a livable wage at the very least treat your employees well and not like total shit the way they do. And I'm tired of the corporate world looking down on the commoners that are the working class. they are so far out of touch with the commoners(for lack of better word) that it's sickens me.



Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2014, 10:03:22 AM »
I'm not talking about the "psychology and sociology of biases," I'm talking about your own unwillingness to reveal your own biases.
You apparently missed my very first post in this thread. So not only do you not have a firm grasp over the subject you're tackling, you're not even bothering to look at the answers you're given. And you wonder why you're not being taken seriously.

Offline josephpalazzo

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2014, 10:05:07 AM »
Pretty much bang on other than the foreign policy. I just try to be pragmatic.

On the international arena, left-wing ideology doesn't work. It's fine to root for those who are the underdogs, wanting to raise the standard of living of everyone, especially those who come from disadvantaged socio-economic background, etc. That enterprise is noble, but it only works under certain conditions, a framework that espouses Western values: democracy, rule of law, individual rights, safeguard for minority groups. In the international arena, we have to deal with thugs who won't hesitate to put a bullet through your head, and not only once we have remove the thugs do we have guarantees that the people will espouse Western values. Look at Egypt, given the chance of electing their government, the Egyptians voted for the Muslim Brothers, a party dedicated to eradicate secularism, freedom of expression, equal rights between man and woman. A similar thing happened with the Palestinians when they voted for Hamas, a terrorist organisation dedicated to the destruction of Israel by any means including using their population to shield their so-called "freedom fighters".

Re: ITT We disclose our political biases
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2014, 10:33:15 AM »
When people say "fairness" or "morality" what they really mean is that the strong should serve the weak, however these last two ideas are defined.

I think I've just hit upon the ur-symbol of left-wing politics in all its forms.

Actually, I think "morality" would be conservative, while "fairness" would be liberal.  And "security" would be the worst aspects of both rolled into one.
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