What are your feelings on the death penalty?

[aitm]

kill em all, if they are in prison, most likely they deserve to be shot.....so there.  [-(

[Alaric I]

Writer posted a YouTube video

The philosophy professor in the first half of part two explains pretty well why the death penalty (and really, why NO penalties) deter crimes, except in a very small percentage of a very specific type of crime.

If people want to commit a crime, they will (in most cases) regardless of what, if any, penalty there is if they are caught.  The argument that only punishment is stopping you really is no different than the argument that xtians use that the only thing stopping them (and supposedly, even we atheists) is Gods punishment.  I'm with Penn....It's BULLSHIT.

The entire video is really good, honestly, and brings up a lot of other good points about the death penalty as well.

Should've just posted part 2.  I'm still not convinced with the numbers presented, but they definitely make some really good arguments against it.

[Alaric I]

It has nothing to do with numbers.  You claimed that it's been proven that the death penalty isn't a deterrant and then presented a biased source.  I can take truths and set them up to fit my view point but it's still not truth because I am deliberately fitting it into my own little box.

seriously? you must be a christian with that kind of logic.

Really?  That's where you're going with this?  Wow.

[Alaric I]

kill em all, if they are in prison, most likely they deserve to be shot.....so there.  [-(

Not all of them, I'd release the pot smokers.

[BarkAtTheMoon]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates#stateswithvwithout

Granted, there is a lot of controversy on the issue so it's probably worth reading around a bit. The whole website has a lot of info on the death penalty (duh, given the name)

Surprised Maryland is that high, but the bulk of the top half of the death penalty list are states that lead poverty lists and sit at the bottom of education lists. The correlation just might have something to do with other factors than the death penalty. Why else would New Mexico be second overall, yet non death penalty?

[surly74]

It has nothing to do with numbers.  You claimed that it's been proven that the death penalty isn't a deterrant and then presented a biased source.  I can take truths and set them up to fit my view point but it's still not truth because I am deliberately fitting it into my own little box.

seriously? you must be a christian with that kind of logic.

Really?  That's where you're going with this?  Wow.

pretty much. look, you were presented evidence which you dismissed because it didn't agree with what you wanted it to. You picked on a specific reason that had nothing to do with the actual evidence. You've done nothing that furthers your position, just crap on other evidence. Aroura33 commented on your "bias" bitch as well but you ignored her? maybe you are going to comment on her point how the numbers aren't wrong because of bias. Maybe I am jumping the gun.

You don't have to accept the evidence but don't expect to be taken seriously if the only reason you don't is because it doesn't agree with what you want it to. sound familiar? christians do the exact same thing with regards to evidence. therefore with your logic you must be christian.

your "bias" refute is nothing more than sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and repeating "na na na I can't hear you."

[Alaric I]

It has nothing to do with numbers.  You claimed that it's been proven that the death penalty isn't a deterrant and then presented a biased source.  I can take truths and set them up to fit my view point but it's still not truth because I am deliberately fitting it into my own little box.

Just because the site itself is anti-death pentalty does not inherently make their numbers wrong.  The numbers or the studies themselves would have to be bias to dismiss them, not the people who present those numbers.

Which is hard to determine, but we can assess that the studies were biased based on the source.  They show the same info as Amnesty international which is very biased and has used biased testing.  If I could see the source of where they got the info, I'll take another look; but based on the source I can discount the numbers.

[Alaric I]

pretty much. look, you were presented evidence which you dismissed because it didn't agree with what you wanted it to. You picked on a specific reason that had nothing to do with the actual evidence. You've done nothing that furthers your position, just crap on other evidence. Aroura33 commented on your "bias" bitch as well but you ignored her? maybe you are going to comment on her point how the numbers aren't wrong because of bias. Maybe I am jumping the gun.{/quote]

I had not seen her reply, I did see yours.  I will however go back and take another look.

You don't have to accept the evidence but don't expect to be taken seriously if the only reason you don't is because it doesn't agree with what you want it to. sound familiar? christians do the exact same thing with regards to evidence. therefore with your logic you must be christian.

your "bias" refute is nothing more than sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and repeating "na na na I can't hear you."

Based on the source you gave me I sure as hell can discount it.  It has nothing to do with what I want to hear, and I could surmise that you used it only because it supports your position.

Above all, your reply was nothing more than a weak attempt at an attack and it made laugh.

[Jmpty]

Ummmmm....the source is the FBI

Populations are from the U.S. Census estimates for each year.
 
Murder rates are from the FBI's "Crime in the United States" and are per 100,000 population.
 
The murder rate for the region (death penalty states or non-death penalty states) is the total number of murders in the region divided by the total population (and then multiplied by 100,000)

[Alaric I]

Proof?

i thought of asking that question but then figured the proof was he hasn't gone on a killing spree yet.

No, the proof is taking a look at human nature and history.

[surly74]

pretty much. look, you were presented evidence which you dismissed because it didn't agree with what you wanted it to. You picked on a specific reason that had nothing to do with the actual evidence. You've done nothing that furthers your position, just crap on other evidence. Aroura33 commented on your "bias" bitch as well but you ignored her? maybe you are going to comment on her point how the numbers aren't wrong because of bias. Maybe I am jumping the gun.{/quote]

I had not seen her reply, I did see yours.  I will however go back and take another look.

You don't have to accept the evidence but don't expect to be taken seriously if the only reason you don't is because it doesn't agree with what you want it to. sound familiar? christians do the exact same thing with regards to evidence. therefore with your logic you must be christian.

your "bias" refute is nothing more than sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and repeating "na na na I can't hear you."

Based on the source you gave me I sure as hell can discount it.  It has nothing to do with what I want to hear, and I could surmise that you used it only because it supports your position.

Above all, your reply was nothing more than a weak attempt at an attack and it made laugh.

ok first of all. i didn't send this too you. another poster did.

Secondly...for probably the third time. Ignore the website and look at the raw numbers. that's the point. if you disagree with them then find numbers that refute it. It shouldn't be that hard.

Actually I don't think you know what proof or evidence is, especially when I read "No, the proof is taking a look at human nature and history."

It's very very similar to what a christian does. any other topic and the person would be filleted.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The problem there is once someone is convicted they shut the case never to look at it again.  

The difference is, when the person is dead, no restitution is possible.

Convictions are often overturned based upon new evidence or findings of witness improprieties such as perjured testimony.

These are just DNA exonerations:


Source: http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/

The same source indicates that more than 300 exonerations based on DNA have occurred.  I know, as well, that other, non-DNA exonerations have taken place as well.  Granted, it's not a huge number, but cases are reopened when the evidence indicates a wrongful conviction, in some cases.

[Aroura33]

Ummmmm....the source is the FBI

Populations are from the U.S. Census estimates for each year.
 
Murder rates are from the FBI's "Crime in the United States" and are per 100,000 population.
 
The murder rate for the region (death penalty states or non-death penalty states) is the total number of murders in the region divided by the total population (and then multiplied by 100,000)

I think this needs a bump, so Alaric can see where those numbers came from.  They didn't come from Amnesty international or the earlier linked website, those groups are just using raw numbers provided by the FBI and law enforcement.

Should've just posted part 2.  I'm still not convinced with the numbers presented, but they definitely make some really good arguments against it.

Also, thank you for watching the entire video, I appreciate it.  You noted that they used the same statistics, which are indeed from the FBI.

[The Dude]

I think you could make an argument that life in prison is worse than death.

[WitchSabrina]

As unpopular as it is...........and without 100% certainty........ liberal as I am........ I am For the death penalty.  Me, of all people, I know- Sounds crazy weird.  But there it is.  And I'd prefer to not type up walls of text of our family's history or deep pain that's happened to me in my life to explain why.  I just believe that the planet would be better off if Some people were not on it.  And No, I don't imagine that it would or should be easy to determine that as fact.

And I find it totally insane that it costs less to carry a prisoner for a life's term than to end the world of their presence?? I've always wondered why one bullet and a good fire couldn't clean the place up a little and at little expense?

feel free to throw tomatoes at me........
It's just how I feel about it.