the hated abortion discussion.

[the_antithesis]

The abortion issue has nothing to do with the rights of the embryo but is about whether the woman has any rights to her own body or not. Anyone who brings up the embryo is intentionally attempting to muddy the issue

[Solitary]

If an unborn is aborted, and it is a human, why does it die then?  What if it looks like this or worse: Solitary

[PickelledEggs]

If an unborn is aborted, and it is a human, why does it die then?  Solitary

The whole argument is stupid. Men shouldn't have a say in women do with their bodies and women shouldn't have a say in what other women do with their bodies.

As for taking a potential life.... that argument gets shot in the foot when you realize that the people that are anti-abortion are usually also pro-war....

[doorknob]

nice i got it.

roe v wade was ruled because of privacy not about a woman's right to her body.

Also if I try to kill myself and some one stops me, Why do I not have the right to kill myself it's my body?

how bout this I cut off my arm and then claim disability. It's my body.

[Solitary]

There's no law that says you can't cut off your arm, but there is for fraud.  Solitary

[the_antithesis]

Here's a thought.

If a woman can't have an abortion because the rights of the embryo are greater than her right to her own body, then the woman is less of a person than the unborn embryo.

If that embryo is female and is born, grows up, and has an unwanted pregnancy but can't have an abortion because she is also less of a person.

Therefore, only female embryos can be safely aborted because women are clearly less human than men.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Here's a thought.

If a woman can't have an abortion because the rights of the embryo are greater than her right to her own body, then the woman is less of a person than the unborn embryo.

If that embryo is female and is born, grows up, and has an unwanted pregnancy but can't have an abortion because she is also less of a person.

Therefore, only female embryos can be safely aborted because women are clearly less human than men.

Impeccable logic, sir.

[Solitary]

  And I thought this subject couldn't get more contentious. Solitary

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I just realized how terrible the_antithesis' last post could sound out of context.

[the_antithesis]

I just realized how terrible the_antithesis' last post could sound out of context.

You mean if I was an actual pro-lifer.

I don't think they realize this is the consequence of their position

[Nam]

The abortion issue has nothing to do with the rights of the embryo but is about whether the woman has any rights to her own body or not. Anyone who brings up the embryo is intentionally attempting to muddy the issue

How many laws are out there that has been introduced or passed in the US that prevents a man from getting a vasectomy?

The answer, by the way, (I believe) is zero.

Abortion has never been about saving a baby, it's always been about women being second/third class citizens to men.

If people were serious about all life, or potential life being precious then vasectomies would be as evil (to them) as everything passed, attempted to be passed, etc., toward women.

-Nam

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Why come so many pro-lifers lose interest once the kid has been born?

[Nam]

Why come so many pro-lifers lose interest once the kid has been born?

Because they're alive. Ironically, they actually don't care about the living.

-Nam

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Because they're alive. Ironically, they actually don't care about the living.

-Nam

Might cost them money, so fuck 'em.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Taking the logic of prolifers to its conclusion, if a woman has a period and passes an unfetilized egg from her body, she has in effect also killed a potential human. Just because the egg is unfertilized, it still has/had the potential to be fertilized. And it is not unrealistic that we could wind up there, because personhood laws criminalize women for miscarriages where the mother is theoretically the cause, i.e. drinking, unsafe behavior doing something that could be seen as intentional to create a miscarriage.

You can talk and philosophize all day long about whether an egg is human or not, and at what stage it can be considered "not human" enough to be aborted. To me it comes back to simple logistics. If a baby by being born is facing a future of neglect, and by being born bring a negative condition for itself and the parent into existence, abortion is justified. Sounds cold and hard, but so is reality. If a baby by being born will face a life of dubious potential or in constant need of care and is a burden on society with no realistic justification for its life, abortion makes sense. Giving birth to diseased monsters or unwanted, unsupportable offspring is stupid, period.

Careful.. You're treading on eugenics territory there sounding really right wingish on the side of pro choice people with the burden on society nonsense. It's sounding like you're saying it's OK as long as the mother is dirt poor and everyone knows poor people always stay poor so there's no reason to allow them to breed kind of talk..  That's the argument that the Lush Limpballs of the world might make..