Author Topic: Peace be with you!  (Read 2850 times)

Offline CatholicCrusader (OP)

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2014, 02:51:21 AM »
Since you brought it up, why--according to the bible--was god so willing to kill David's baby (and babies in general) yet--according to your church--so pissed at the concept of using condoms to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS? On a related note, how can you decry picking and choosing among protestants while picking and choosing among catholic doctrine yourself--such as your expressed views on contraceptives and clerical celibacy--?
not all of my personal beliefs are in line with the church nor do I always understand why the Church teaches what it does.  I also have doubts and feelings of rebellion against God and the Bible and the church.

 My issue is more with those who are constantly saying the Catholic Church is unbiblical.

 I personally believe that any Catholic priest that has raped or sotomized child should be brought before a firing squad and executed.  However my personal beliefs and the Church's teachings are different.  Throughout the Bible a barren womb was considered a curse and a fertile womb was considered a blessing.   There is no biblical support for ever making a womb barren.   With more children there are more helping hands.

I do not understand why God did alot of what he did in the Old Testament. 

I do have my own personal views on abortion where in many cases I personally see abortion as the lesser of two evils. Yet I still consider it ussually an act of homicide. However I am a sinner and just because I don't understand something I don't declare that I am right and the church is wrong.

Most Catholics I know have struggled or continue to struggle very much with the views and decisions of the church Magisterium.   I do not consider myself a good Catholic.  I have much knowledge of apologetics but that doesn't mean I don't blaspheme or doubt my faith.  In fact in these last two months my faith has suffered more than it has in the last 7 years.

But either way I strongly believe that the Catholic Church will endure forever.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 02:55:36 AM by CatholicCrusader »

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2014, 11:58:44 AM »
Why do I think you are not going to last for long at this forum again? You're not fooling me with who you are phatt head. Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Offline DunkleSeele

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2014, 12:04:17 PM »
                                               
 
Moderator Message:
 
 

To everyone: let's not get paranoid and accuse every new member to be another PhattMatt's sockpuppet.

This is just a general warning, next time stricter measures may be taken.
 

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2014, 01:07:33 AM »
Don't know that we've seen the last of Catholic Crusader, but I have to say in the aftermath that he is a perfect example of what keeps religion going. Everything that he put on here amounted to being right out Catholic liturgy from the start. He had a fixed and firm belief in the bible and did not question the validity of it all.

It is interesting in comparison to the thread I posted about atheists being smarter
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5821.0

to wit,
Quote
intelligence is defined as “the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly, and learn from experience." This excludes other forms of intelligence, like creative and emotional intelligence.

Theists seem to be not necessarily less intelligent but more caught up in the emotional aspects of belief, not applying critical thinking or looking at objectively or in the abstract; but buying emotionally into the concept without questioning it. When confronted with hard evidence that the church was in fact a very damaged and corrupt institution, he made-at least to this point- no valiant attempt to defend it.

But after all that, I think he is still a true believer and will remain one.


Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2014, 02:40:06 AM »
Oh, and I'm NOT your "Brother in Crust".
If you like pizza, I am your brother in crust. Just don't eat my slices.
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Offline SGOS

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2014, 03:33:41 AM »
Theists seem to be not necessarily less intelligent but more caught up in the emotional aspects of belief, not applying critical thinking or looking at objectively or in the abstract; but buying emotionally into the concept without questioning it.
Add to that a high degree of mule like stubbornness against admitting their beliefs have no basis in reality.  Actually, mules are not as stubborn.

Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2014, 03:35:42 AM »
Well I used to be a catholic. But hey, perhaps many of the things I think the church teaches are wrong. Maybe I've got some of their stances wrong.
Not kidding; I wasn't the most biblically-literate catholic and the idea of a pope came across as a bad idea way before I lost my faith. So I didn't listen to him very much. So entirely possible that my information about the church and her stances is lacking. (Likewise there is bound to be a hole in my knowledge regarding Budhism, Protestantism, Mormonism, Islam, Hinduïsm, Janism, ...)

But none of that matters to me.

What matters to me is if there is anything to back up the claims of the Roman Catholic Church (or any other religion). Anything at all to show there is any truth behind what they say.

And there isn't.
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2014, 10:00:16 AM »
Well I used to be a catholic. But hey, perhaps many of the things I think the church teaches are wrong. Maybe I've got some of their stances wrong.
Not kidding; I wasn't the most biblically-literate catholic and the idea of a pope came across as a bad idea way before I lost my faith. So I didn't listen to him very much. So entirely possible that my information about the church and her stances is lacking. (Likewise there is bound to be a hole in my knowledge regarding Budhism, Protestantism, Mormonism, Islam, Hinduïsm, Janism, ...)

But none of that matters to me.

What matters to me is if there is anything to back up the claims of the Roman Catholic Church (or any other religion). Anything at all to show there is any truth behind what they say.

And there isn't.

Yes, and that is what I'm talking about. You have taken an objective, critical thinking stance rather than buying in on an emotional basis.

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2014, 07:11:10 PM »
My issue is more with those who are constantly saying the Catholic Church is unbiblical.
I'm an ex catholic. It's not that the church is unbiblical, it is immoral by just about any definition.

I can't even think of any other organization that has committed the number of atrocities carried out by the catholic church over so many centuries. From torture (the inquisition went on for over 700 years), to burning thousands of women to death, to selling indulgences, to stealing children from their mothers (and incarcerating the mothers) to laundering Nazi money, to child rape and hiding of said rape, to telling poor and overpopulated nations that birth control is evil...

Any secular organization with a crime record like this would have been disbanded at the very least. Call it a religion and everyone looks the other way.
Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2014, 05:13:14 PM »
Hello, Joseph--and I can say that you are my human brother, but not in "Christ".  BTW, did you not realize that that is a title and not a name?  There are in fact thousands of "Christs" out there.  I think you meant to refer to Jesus--but the Jesus you were most likely referring to is a myth--ahistorical--made up--not real.  You may as well put your faith in the tooth fairy or the easter bunny; both are just as real as your Jesus. 

You said:  not all of my personal beliefs are in line with the church nor do I always understand why the Church teaches what it does.  I also have doubts and feelings of rebellion against God and the Bible and the church.

Me--Doubts are good.  With so much to doubt about any organized religion, much less one with the history of the Catholic Church.  Start by investigating the history or your church (use neutral sources and not the official sources for such research).  Your doubts will only increase.

You said: My issue is more with those who are constantly saying the Catholic Church is unbiblical.
Me--To which bible are you referring?  There are literally thousands of them and they are all different.  Actually, all churches are unbiblical, since none of they follow the bible totally.  Not possible.


You said:  I do not understand why God did alot of what he did in the Old Testament. 
Me--Yes, hard to fathom.  Keep researching that subject.

I do have my own personal views on abortion where in many cases I personally see abortion as the lesser of two evils. Yet I still consider it ussually an act of homicide. However I am a sinner and just because I don't understand something I don't declare that I am right and the church is wrong.

Most Catholics I know have struggled or continue to struggle very much with the views and decisions of the church Magisterium.   I do not consider myself a good Catholic.  I have much knowledge of apologetics but that doesn't mean I don't blaspheme or doubt my faith.  In fact in these last two months my faith has suffered more than it has in the last 7 years.

You said:  But either way I strongly believe that the Catholic Church will endure forever.
Me--Forever is a long time.  It has lasted 2,000 years, more or less.  But if human society can continue to to use reason and logic to solve problems, then the Catholic church will not endure.  The history of atheism is relatively short--when it has 2000 years under its belt, I am sure churches will be a history that is read and chuckled at.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2014, 06:25:29 PM »
Hello, Joseph--and I can say that you are my human brother, but not in "Christ".  BTW, did you not realize that that is a title and not a name?  There are in fact thousands of "Christs" out there.  I think you meant to refer to Jesus--but the Jesus you were most likely referring to is a myth--ahistorical--made up--not real.  You may as well put your faith in the tooth fairy or the easter bunny; both are just as real as your Jesus. 

You said:  not all of my personal beliefs are in line with the church nor do I always understand why the Church teaches what it does.  I also have doubts and feelings of rebellion against God and the Bible and the church.

Me--Doubts are good.  With so much to doubt about any organized religion, much less one with the history of the Catholic Church.  Start by investigating the history or your church (use neutral sources and not the official sources for such research).  Your doubts will only increase.

You said: My issue is more with those who are constantly saying the Catholic Church is unbiblical.
Me--To which bible are you referring?  There are literally thousands of them and they are all different.  Actually, all churches are unbiblical, since none of they follow the bible totally.  Not possible.


You said:  I do not understand why God did alot of what he did in the Old Testament. 
Me--Yes, hard to fathom.  Keep researching that subject.

I do have my own personal views on abortion where in many cases I personally see abortion as the lesser of two evils. Yet I still consider it ussually an act of homicide. However I am a sinner and just because I don't understand something I don't declare that I am right and the church is wrong.

Most Catholics I know have struggled or continue to struggle very much with the views and decisions of the church Magisterium.   I do not consider myself a good Catholic.  I have much knowledge of apologetics but that doesn't mean I don't blaspheme or doubt my faith.  In fact in these last two months my faith has suffered more than it has in the last 7 years.

You said:  But either way I strongly believe that the Catholic Church will endure forever.
Me--Forever is a long time.  It has lasted 2,000 years, more or less.  But if human society can continue to to use reason and logic to solve problems, then the Catholic church will not endure.  The history of atheism is relatively short--when it has 2000 years under its belt, I am sure churches will be a history that is read and chuckled at.

Who are you talking to?

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2014, 07:19:43 PM »
The Catholic Crusader identified himself as 'Joseph'--so I was addressing him.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2014, 07:25:06 PM »
The Catholic Crusader identified himself as 'Joseph'--so I was addressing him.

That guy is no longer here.

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2014, 08:02:54 PM »
Ah, yes--I guess it would be good for me to read dates. :))  So, the post was posted to the ether, I guess.  And it will help to meet my 10 post requirement. :)
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Munch

Re: Peace be with you!
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2014, 06:38:18 AM »
I think sometimes having someone on debate threads who is still devoutly theist can, at least, make for some interesting debates. Obviously a lot of us here already have strong understanding of religion, many being ex-<insert faith here>, so its not like anyone who is devout theist can teach anyone here anything.

But thinking of it kind of like an experiment in human sociology and study, you still need someone who is under such beliefs to recognize the problems it presents, so up until they really push there theistic belief on people, its well enough to pop some questions to them.