So What Do Conservatives Actually Want to Conserve?

Started by Bobby_Ouroborus, February 20, 2013, 05:16:58 PM

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Alaric I

Quote from: "commonsense822"
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Quote from: "Bobby_Ouroborus"The problem with Marxist theory is that Marxism cannot change human nature. It's impossible to implement.

Hear, hear.  Not coincidentally, it's the same reason why pure libertarianism cannot work, as well.

Both systems of thought ignore human nature.

Yeah Libertarianism definitely has some good aspects to it.  But I completely agree that pure libertarianism is bunk.  For that matter really any pure political ideology is bound to fail though.


Well it depends as what you call "pure".  I claim myself to be a Libertarian, but I see flaws in it.  The other day I was blocked from a Libertarian page because I dare ask why we need to allow people with mental issues and violent criminals to purchase and/or use guns.  I feel that people have rights as long as they don't abuse them to the point that it harms society.  These guys were all about letting all people own and carry because the constitution says so.  Yes, lets give a gun to Ted Bundy acting fuck and then cry when they want to regulate it more.

MMHMM, but I digress, back to my original point.  It is only a pure ideology until someone creates a new one (normally hybrids of others) in which case that one then becomes pure as more and more people accept it.

mykcob4

Quote from: "Alaric I"
Quote from: "Bobby_Ouroborus"They call themselves Conservatives meaning they want to maintain the status quo. Right?

So what is the status quo that needs conserving other than White Male Christian privilege and traditions?

So if that is what Conservative are aiming to conserve, doesn't that make them inherently racist. chauvinistic and intolerant? If you want to preserve the privilege of a specific race doesn't that betray the fact that you think your race is superior for some reason and deserves that privilege over others?


I think you may be misinterpreting something.  What they want to do is conserve the ideals that this nation was built on.  Unfortunately they haven't come out from those days.  They skew the idea of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happyness" to mean "anyone that isn't condimed outright by the bible".  So they aren't inherently racists, yet they are against homosexuals.  Liberals also have come away from what they were built to do, liberate all the people regardeless of race, sex, age, sexual orientation etc.  I think the best stance to have is somewhere in the middle, hold steady to the constitution, yet make sure the ideals that this country were founded on are applicable to all men.  Let gays marry, make sure the black guy sitting next to in teh front of the bus has the same opportunity I do to succeed, don't try to barge into my house and take my shit just because you think I may be doing something illegal.  It funny because now more than ever I see similarities in the way both sides think, and they vastly outweigh the differences in my mind.
No you are wrong conservatives are racist inherently and every other way. To be a conservative you must be "christian" you must be racist, sexest,intollerent facist, stupid, blindly obedient to a church and FOX news. You must follow and obey the politics of the wealthy especially if it goes against your best interest. You must believe in the myth of southern aristocracy. You must hate nature. You have to worship John Wayne, Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon. You have to believe that all movies with Arnold S., Bruce Willis, and Sly Stallone are true and believable. You have to think that the lies made into movies by Mel Gibson are documentaries and factually correct. You have to believe that federal laws are to be ignored or broken. You have to be a complete idiot, hypocrite, a loud mouth, and an obnoxious fool. You have to keep fighting the Civil War. You must believe revistionist history and pseudo-science. You have to raise your kids to be self-entitled spoiled brats.
In otherwords conservatives are the most irresponcible self entitled unAmerican people that ever appeared on the Earth!

Alaric I

Quote from: "mykcob4"No you are wrong conservatives are racist inherently and every other way. To be a conservative you must be "christian" you must be racist, sexest,intollerent facist, stupid, blindly obedient to a church and FOX news. You must follow and obey the politics of the wealthy especially if it goes against your best interest. You must believe in the myth of southern aristocracy. You must hate nature. You have to worship John Wayne, Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon. You have to believe that all movies with Arnold S., Bruce Willis, and Sly Stallone are true and believable. You have to think that the lies made into movies by Mel Gibson are documentaries and factually correct. You have to believe that federal laws are to be ignored or broken. You have to be a complete idiot, hypocrite, a loud mouth, and an obnoxious fool. You have to keep fighting the Civil War. You must believe revistionist history and pseudo-science. You have to raise your kids to be self-entitled spoiled brats.
In otherwords conservatives are the most irresponcible self entitled unAmerican people that ever appeared on the Earth!

Two questions:

What are you smoking?

Why aren't you passing that shit?

commonsense822

Quote from: "mykcob4"
Quote from: "Alaric I"
Quote from: "Bobby_Ouroborus"They call themselves Conservatives meaning they want to maintain the status quo. Right?

So what is the status quo that needs conserving other than White Male Christian privilege and traditions?

So if that is what Conservative are aiming to conserve, doesn't that make them inherently racist. chauvinistic and intolerant? If you want to preserve the privilege of a specific race doesn't that betray the fact that you think your race is superior for some reason and deserves that privilege over others?


I think you may be misinterpreting something.  What they want to do is conserve the ideals that this nation was built on.  Unfortunately they haven't come out from those days.  They skew the idea of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happyness" to mean "anyone that isn't condimed outright by the bible".  So they aren't inherently racists, yet they are against homosexuals.  Liberals also have come away from what they were built to do, liberate all the people regardeless of race, sex, age, sexual orientation etc.  I think the best stance to have is somewhere in the middle, hold steady to the constitution, yet make sure the ideals that this country were founded on are applicable to all men.  Let gays marry, make sure the black guy sitting next to in teh front of the bus has the same opportunity I do to succeed, don't try to barge into my house and take my shit just because you think I may be doing something illegal.  It funny because now more than ever I see similarities in the way both sides think, and they vastly outweigh the differences in my mind.
No you are wrong conservatives are racist inherently and every other way. To be a conservative you must be "christian" you must be racist, sexest,intollerent facist, stupid, blindly obedient to a church and FOX news. You must follow and obey the politics of the wealthy especially if it goes against your best interest. You must believe in the myth of southern aristocracy. You must hate nature. You have to worship John Wayne, Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon. You have to believe that all movies with Arnold S., Bruce Willis, and Sly Stallone are true and believable. You have to think that the lies made into movies by Mel Gibson are documentaries and factually correct. You have to believe that federal laws are to be ignored or broken. You have to be a complete idiot, hypocrite, a loud mouth, and an obnoxious fool. You have to keep fighting the Civil War. You must believe revistionist history and pseudo-science. You have to raise your kids to be self-entitled spoiled brats.
In otherwords conservatives are the most irresponcible self entitled unAmerican people that ever appeared on the Earth!

Over-generalization...

Fidel_Castronaut

Quote from: "commonsense822"Over-generalization...

And then some. Conservatives are not some homogenous entity where one glove fits all, and that includes American conservatives I dare say.
lol, marquee. HTML ROOLZ!

Thumpalumpacus

Quote from: "commonsense822"Yeah Libertarianism definitely has some good aspects to it.  But I completely agree that pure libertarianism is bunk.  For that matter really any pure political ideology is bound to fail though.

Absolutely.  In most matters -- not just politics -- nuance is a good metric of wisdom, I think.  For that reason, I'm deeply suspicious of anyone who thinks in primary colors.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Thumpalumpacus

Quote from: "mykcob4"No you are wrong conservatives are racist inherently and every other way. To be a conservative you must be "christian" you must be racist, sexest,intollerent facist, stupid, blindly obedient to a church and FOX news. You must follow and obey the politics of the wealthy especially if it goes against your best interest. You must believe in the myth of southern aristocracy. You must hate nature. You have to worship John Wayne, Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon. You have to believe that all movies with Arnold S., Bruce Willis, and Sly Stallone are true and believable. You have to think that the lies made into movies by Mel Gibson are documentaries and factually correct. You have to believe that federal laws are to be ignored or broken. You have to be a complete idiot, hypocrite, a loud mouth, and an obnoxious fool. You have to keep fighting the Civil War. You must believe revistionist history and pseudo-science. You have to raise your kids to be self-entitled spoiled brats.
In otherwords conservatives are the most irresponcible self entitled unAmerican people that ever appeared on the Earth!

Have you considered a career in writing parody?  You have a good amount of talent for it.
<insert witty aphorism here>

mykcob4

Historically what has conservatism  and conservatives given us?
The Great Depression
The great Recession
Royalist tyrrany
Religious tyrrany
Genocide
Racism
Slavery
Revisionist history
Pseudo-science
Homophobia
Chavenism
The Crusades
War on the laborer/worker
War on women
War on individual freedom/rights
War on gays
War on all people of color
Monopolies
Corporate corruption/crimanilty
more guns than any society needs
pollution
poison water/land and air
Faux News=propaganda
NAZIs
Facist
As far as "over-generalization" goes, the question ASKED for a generalization. You can't ask for an answer that could nothing but sterotypical and then complain when you get it.
EXAMPLE: What do conservatives actually do?
The only answer is a generalization and a characterization.
So if I generalized I fulfilled the requirement. When I described "conservatives" it is an description derived from the historic and present day actions of the ideology. Since the only political party named "conservative" exist in Great Britian, we have to refer to an ideology not a group of actual individuals, which exactly what I did.

Thumpalumpacus

Quote from: "mykcob4"[...]
NAZIs

Equating conservatism with NaZiism is nonsense, just as much as if I were to equate leftism with murderous Socialism which brought humanity things like GULags and reeducation camps. Indeed, if you compare death tolls, the latter have bloodier hands.  Hitler was a radical, not a conservative, as anyone who has studied a little history knows.

There's a lot of other sloppy thinking on your list, but it's in essence a Gish Gallop, so if you want to discuss specifics, go topic by topic instead of trying to lade the argument with a welter of points.  It will make the discussion move much smoother and more comprehensibly.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Alaric I

QuoteHistorically what has conservatism  and conservatives given us?
The Great Depression

That was years in the making, trying to rest it on the shoulders of Hoover is just ridiulous

QuoteReligious tyrrany

That came years before the conservatism.

QuoteGenocide

When and Where? Because I'm pretty sure Obama is using unmanned drones to kill hundreds (and still rising) instrikes in Pakistan.


QuoteRacism

Long before then.

QuoteSlavery

Look above for your answer here.

QuotePseudo-science

Nope, that would be morons.

QuoteHomophobia

Once again, not conservatism

QuoteChavenism

Nope

QuoteThe Crusades

Huh uh
QuoteWar on the laborer/worker

Proof?

QuoteWar on women

See Chavenism

QuoteWar on individual freedom/rights

Like my freedom of speech which Obama outlawed near government facilities?

QuoteWar on gays

Nope
War on all people of color
See Racism

QuoteCorporate corruption/crimanilty

Actualkly, that would be the government by taking hand outs to support corporations.

Quotemore guns than any society needs

You still don't know what you are talking about


Quotepollution
poison water/land and air

That's just silly


QuoteFaux News=propaganda

And Liberals have MSNBC=propoganda


QuoteNAZIs

You never go full retard dude.

QuoteFacist

See Nazi's


QuoteAs far as "over-generalization" goes, the question ASKED for a generalization. You can't ask for an answer that could nothing but sterotypical and then complain when you get it.
EXAMPLE: What do conservatives actually do?
The only answer is a generalization and a characterization.
So if I generalized I fulfilled the requirement. When I described "conservatives" it is an description derived from the historic and present day actions of the ideology. Since the only political party named "conservative" exist in Great Britian, we have to refer to an ideology not a group of actual individuals, which exactly what I did.

All you did was package it to fit your definition.

mykcob4

Hoover wasn't the entire problem and I didn't lay the entire blame of the depression on him. I blamed the conservatives.
As far as the rest of your post trying to say that the racism and the rest is antient history, well you'd be wrong about that. Conservatives are just as racist as they always were now and back in the 60's (1800&1900), they just don't get away with it as much.
Just because YOU don't agree doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I know full well what I am talking about. BTW FOX is PURE propaganda. MSNBC does flat out lie about things. They may favor the Liberal point of you, but they don't need to lie to acheive a favorable story.
Pollution, you think that is "silly!" The fact is that conservatives have fought tooth and nail to keep from have ANY pollution laws or regulation. So it isn't silly it's a fact that the pollution that we suffer from today is a direct result of conservatives defying and fighting pollution laws. Global Warming is a scientific fact, and it's cause is mostly manmade, but conservatives have engaged in propaganda using lies and pseudo-science to sway the public away from laws of responsibility. So it isn't at all "silly!"
The fact is EVERYTHING I staed is true and perfectly describes the ideology of conservatives. Just saying "Nope" doesn't eliviate that fact!

Alaric I

Quote from: "mykcob4"Hoover wasn't the entire problem and I didn't lay the entire blame of the depression on him. I blamed the conservatives.
As far as the rest of your post trying to say that the racism and the rest is antient history, well you'd be wrong about that. Conservatives are just as racist as they always were now and back in the 60's (1800&1900), they just don't get away with it as much.
Just because YOU don't agree doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I know full well what I am talking about. BTW FOX is PURE propaganda. MSNBC does flat out lie about things. They may favor the Liberal point of you, but they don't need to lie to acheive a favorable story.
Pollution, you think that is "silly!" The fact is that conservatives have fought tooth and nail to keep from have ANY pollution laws or regulation. So it isn't silly it's a fact that the pollution that we suffer from today is a direct result of conservatives defying and fighting pollution laws. Global Warming is a scientific fact, and it's cause is mostly manmade, but conservatives have engaged in propaganda using lies and pseudo-science to sway the public away from laws of responsibility. So it isn't at all "silly!"
The fact is EVERYTHING I staed is true and perfectly describes the ideology of conservatives. Just saying "Nope" doesn't eliviate that fact!


Just sayin "yup" doesn't make it true.  That fact is you have so much disdain for conservatives that you will place blame on them were you feel you can find it.  You toot your parties horn like it is the great thing since sliced bread and blantaly ignore facts that make them look bad.  So no, you don't know what you are talking about, you will say anything you can to push your parties political agenda.

Thumpalumpacus

Quote from: "mykcob4"The fact is EVERYTHING I staed is true and perfectly describes the ideology of conservatives. Just saying "Nope" doesn't eliviate that fact!


Source your claims, then.  Bring facts.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Jmpty

Quote from: "Alaric I"
QuoteHistorically what has conservatism  and conservatives given us?
The Great Depression

That was years in the making, trying to rest it on the shoulders of Hoover is just ridiulous

QuoteReligious tyrrany

That came years before the conservatism.

QuoteGenocide

When and Where? Because I'm pretty sure Obama is using unmanned drones to kill hundreds (and still rising) instrikes in Pakistan.


QuoteRacism

Long before then.

QuoteSlavery

Look above for your answer here.

QuotePseudo-science

Nope, that would be morons.

QuoteHomophobia

Once again, not conservatism

QuoteChavenism

Nope

QuoteThe Crusades

Huh uh
QuoteWar on the laborer/worker

Proof?

QuoteWar on women

See Chavenism

QuoteWar on individual freedom/rights

Like my freedom of speech which Obama outlawed near government facilities?

QuoteWar on gays

Nope
War on all people of color
See Racism

QuoteCorporate corruption/crimanilty

Actualkly, that would be the government by taking hand outs to support corporations.

Quotemore guns than any society needs

You still don't know what you are talking about


Quotepollution
poison water/land and air

That's just silly


QuoteFaux News=propaganda

And Liberals have MSNBC=propoganda


QuoteNAZIs

You never go full retard dude.

QuoteFacist

See Nazi's


QuoteAs far as "over-generalization" goes, the question ASKED for a generalization. You can't ask for an answer that could nothing but sterotypical and then complain when you get it.
EXAMPLE: What do conservatives actually do?
The only answer is a generalization and a characterization.
So if I generalized I fulfilled the requirement. When I described "conservatives" it is an description derived from the historic and present day actions of the ideology. Since the only political party named "conservative" exist in Great Britian, we have to refer to an ideology not a group of actual individuals, which exactly what I did.

All you did was package it to fit your definition.

 You know, saying things like "nope" and "that's just silly" is not really responding to the points that were brought up. You don't see union busting as a war on workers? Or fighting against minimum wage increases? You don't see fighting against environmental regulation as contributing to pollution? Or fighting against equal rights for gays? You think the NRA is made up of mostly liberals? Do I really need to continue?
???  ??

Thumpalumpacus

Also, do you think liberals aren't racist?
<insert witty aphorism here>