Author Topic: How in the Hell is nobody slamming Islam and Muslims over this verse in Quran?!!  (Read 3751 times)

The Muslims, just like the Christians, are a group of cherry pickers, who ignore details in the faith they practice.

If whenever I see a muslim woman here in the uk walking around with a head scarf, I feel like walking up to her saying "either take that fucking thing off or cover your face, hands and feet completely, don't pick and choose the shit in your faith, either embrace it fully or don't follow it"

The Qu'ran requires modesty but is not that specific about what exactly needs to be worn to secure it. In my opinion, women who wear burqas in Western countries are violating the spirit of modesty by attracting attention to themselves.
Atheists are not anti-Christian. They are anti-stupid.--WitchSabrina

If we spent our time going through the Qur'an picking out retarded shit, there wouldn't be much time left for anything else.  I don't think muslims get a pass on this at all.  Living in Britain, most muslims I've met are just getting on with their lives and picking out the bits of the Qur'an that they think are pertinent and broadly acceptable in 21st century Britain.  They're more 'cultural muslims' than anything else and are more concerned with putting food on the table and getting their kids an education just like other people.   Yes, wingnuts do exist here, but they are very much a minority. I take Julia Gillard's (paraphrased) view that anyone who wants to practise an ass-backwards 7th century version of a religion should piss off to a country that can provide that.

Offline Munch

If we spent our time going through the Qur'an picking out retarded shit, there wouldn't be much time left for anything else.  I don't think muslims get a pass on this at all.  Living in Britain, most muslims I've met are just getting on with their lives and picking out the bits of the Qur'an that they think are pertinent and broadly acceptable in 21st century Britain.  They're more 'cultural muslims' than anything else and are more concerned with putting food on the table and getting their kids an education just like other people.   Yes, wingnuts do exist here, but they are very much a minority. I take Julia Gillard's (paraphrased) view that anyone who wants to practise an ass-backwards 7th century version of a religion should piss off to a country that can provide that.

For me, this just puts people of these faiths in the risk zone, in that you don't know what bits and pieces of the Quran or Bible they follow, they might seem perfectly amenable people on the surface, but you suddenly realise there view of the world is that black people are devils and women need to be held in chains, all with a smile on there face while they tell you this.

I trust these folk even less then the nutcases who follow these books in all their violence and irrational thinking, because at least i know i'm dealing with a nutcase when they follow everything the bible or quran teaches. The others, i just approach them with caution.

Just Islam? The bible and OT also have nasty parts as to how you treat other human beings as well. Also makes me wonder what the religious root of the caste system in India comes from.
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Just Islam? The bible and OT also have nasty parts as to how you treat other human beings as well. Also makes me wonder what the religious root of the caste system in India comes from.

I guess you could look it up.  But my guess is that somebody figured it out as a way to keep the have nots with not.
"How long will we be
 Waiting, for your modern messiah
 To take away all the hatred
 That darkens the light in your eye"
  -Disturbed, Liberate

For me, this just puts people of these faiths in the risk zone, in that you don't know what bits and pieces of the Quran or Bible they follow, they might seem perfectly amenable people on the surface, but you suddenly realise there view of the world is that black people are devils and women need to be held in chains, all with a smile on there face while they tell you this.

I trust these folk even less then the nutcases who follow these books in all their violence and irrational thinking, because at least i know i'm dealing with a nutcase when they follow everything the bible or quran teaches. The others, i just approach them with caution.

You trust moderates less than fundamentalists?  Wow, you're the first person I've heard say that. 
There are apparently 73 + sects in islam that believe differing things, and there are obviously variations within each sect, despite attempts by the imams go get everyone to believe the same things.  Even with the threat of state-approved violence to shore up the religious crap there is a bid difference between saying you believe something and actually believing it.
The key to getting rid of fundie religion is education, and the leadership in many islamic countries do their best to keep people the fuck away from any sort of education that is going to encourage them to question the state-approved religious beliefs. 
Most muslims I know over here just like a bit of tradition to keep the family history alive.  Even that will erode when the older members die off.  For the most part, it seems to become more dilute as time goes on.  There will still be reactionary idiots who want to return to the good old days of public stonings and religious mysogyny, but I hope that in time the umma will become sufficiently educated that most will stand up and say no to these idiots and remove their credibility and platform.  As far as the middle east goes, I'm not going to hold my breath though....

Offline Munch

I think just given how these faith erode over time as the world matures in its laws and human rights, they should just outright dissolve them completely.
Thats all these old faiths are, rules to govern human kind by higher ups, something that as the western world has shown has become far far less of any importance then somewhere like the middle east where human rights laws haven't caught up yet.

I think just given how these faith erode over time as the world matures in its laws and human rights, they should just outright dissolve them completely.
Thats all these old faiths are, rules to govern human kind by higher ups, something that as the western world has shown has become far far less of any importance then somewhere like the middle east where human rights laws haven't caught up yet.

Mate, as far as I'm concerned, religion can't disappear down the crapper of history fast enough.  Unfortunately, it is one of the most effective social control systems in the history of humankind, and it's a doozy of a way to get the credulous herd to accept authoritarian rule, so it's going to take a while....

Quran contradict itself in many occasions,

If you ask a muslim they will claim there are no contradictions in the Quran, i have had muslims concede Muhammad al Razi was not a muslim because he said the Quran was full of contradictions, al Razi was a scientist from the golden age of atheism.

So what happens if there are contradictions in the Quran,have you read the fine print?
www.quran.com/4/82

The Qur'an has contradictions all the way through it - it's an argument with itself in many ways.  Given that it took Mohammed 23 years to dictate it to some bloke who was writing it down on leaves and bones, it's no great surprise that he forgot what he'd already said.  Technically, the official position is that there are no contradictions.  Practically, many moderates accept privately that there are contradictions while the hard-liners use a ridiculously convoluted form of creative exegesis to make it look as if there aren't.  Technically, Jews are expecting a messiah, as good ole Jeebus didn't meet the standard.  Practically, I've yet to meet a jew that is expecting one.  Doubtless, the story is different with the Hasidim though...  The gap between traditional and the real is a very uncomfortable one for the religious.... not just Islam, though muslims seem to be the ones with the furthest to fall, given the situation they've put themselves in. 

Offline Munch

Mate, as far as I'm concerned, religion can't disappear down the crapper of history fast enough.  Unfortunately, it is one of the most effective social control systems in the history of humankind, and it's a doozy of a way to get the credulous herd to accept authoritarian rule, so it's going to take a while....

yeah.. I know. It does though create hope when people can stand up and declare they don't need faith in religion to live in this world now, thats a step in the right direction.
Of course trying to hope for religious followers to stop doing it in one generation is of course foolish, religious dogma is forced on children from a young age, by religious parents who were also forced upon by their parents, and the children will do the same to their children in a vicious cycle.

Its only ever a case of if someone in that kind of family line cuts themselves from the cloth that it can lead to more enlightened thinking, at the risk of losing touch with their family (or in middle eastern countries, risk of being beheaded/stoned/hanged)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 05:35:04 PM by Munch »

One of the daftest things about interpretation of the Qur'an is the idea of the principle of abrogation, which means that the prophets's later teachings supersede anything he might have said previously on the same topic.  Many muslims manage to hold that there are no contradictions in the Qur'an when you use the principle of abrogation to interpret it, while flatly ingnoring the fact that the necessity for them to use abrogation at all proves that there were contradictions to start with.  Nuts....  :eyes:

One of the daftest things about interpretation of the Qur'an is the idea of the principle of abrogation, which means that the prophets's later teachings supersede anything he might have said previously on the same topic.  Many muslims manage to hold that there are no contradictions in the Qur'an when you use the principle of abrogation to interpret it, while flatly ingnoring the fact that the necessity for them to use abrogation at all proves that there were contradictions to start with.  Nuts....  :eyes:

Mo died in 632,in 655 the text of the Quran was finalised by the Caliph Uthman, divine origins my ass!

A lot of muslims are in denial about abrogation,Muhsin Khan hints at abrogation with his translation (tick box on left side) of 16/67.
quran.com/16/67

Muslims claim the Quran has never been corrupted, none have given a reasonable explanation on why the verse on stoning is missing from the Quran,i like asking muslims WTF is this breastfeeding an adult ten times nonsense.
It appears a tame sheep starting munching on the Quran which muslims claim has never been corrupted.
sunnah.com/urn/1262630

I have a muslim in another forum who is becoming a Quran only muslim,he rejects a lot of bad shit, he was in denial about Mo having sex slaves and demanded evidence,lol.
sunnah.com/nasai/36/21


The Muslims, just like the Christians, are a group of cherry pickers, who ignore details in the faith they practice.


The Quran forbids cherry picking,a Salafi will tell you this is one of the many ways Islam differs from christianity.

What does Allah say about cherry picking?
quran.com/2/85

If a muslim does cherry pick it could be a good thing if they reject the bad shit, the results of going fundamental can be seen in the Islamic state.

Offline Munch

The Quran forbids cherry picking,a Salafi will tell you this is one of the many ways Islam differs from christianity.

What does Allah say about cherry picking?
quran.com/2/85

If a muslim does cherry pick it could be a good thing if they reject the bad shit, the results of going fundamental can be seen in the Islamic state.

That doesn't stop them from cherry picking though even if theres some rule in place to tell them they can't, it happens anyway. Just like christianity, we know what muslim faith believes about homosexuality, that flogging and death is given out to gay people, yet despite this there are (foolishly) gay muslims here in the uk and in other countries, who cherry pick the 'good parts' of the quran while trying to forget the fact they would be condemned to death in there native country.
So yes, cherry picking infact DOES occur with the quran, its just all down to how insanely religious a muslim is.