Alan Henning killed by Islamic state killers

[josephpalazzo]

I believe branding all Muslims as terrorists is counter-productive - why would you want 1.5 billions to turn against you??? OTOH, the West must stand firm against the terrorists, but it must also strive to get the Muslims on board to fight their own extremists. I don't think we've done enough in that department. And we must pick and choose wisely as to whom we want to enlist on our side. The rise of ISIS has brought a silver lining in as much as it is a cancer, it has also brought a good opportunity to get certain Muslim countries on board to fight that cancer as their own survival is at stake. The ME will always be a powder keg ready to explose. There is no panacea. It doesn't mean we give up or that everything is hopeless. We just have to work harder at it.

[Mike Cl]

Just asking------
What would happen if we (the US) withdrew all troops from the middle east, as well as all of our material; and stopped all air strikes, including our drone attacks.  (I wonder how much hatred is caused each and every time we use a drone??)  Would the US them be engulfed with a huge wave of Islamic fervor?  Would isis suddenly become this monolithic huge power that would engulf the world?  Or would the other muslim entities (hard to call some of them actual countries) push back?  It seems to me much of what is going on there smacks of civil war.  Under suddam , iraq was basically secular.  At least the two major religious parties we kept in check.  With the removal of him and our invasion by war criminal bush and cheney, all that was changed.  And we will suffer from that for ages now.  Why not withdraw and let them do each other in.  After all it really is their part of the world to do with as they think they need to do.

[SGOS]

Just asking------
What would happen if we (the US) withdrew all troops from the middle east, as well as all of our material; and stopped all air strikes, including our drone attacks.  (I wonder how much hatred is caused each and every time we use a drone??)  Would the US them be engulfed with a huge wave of Islamic fervor?  Would isis suddenly become this monolithic huge power that would engulf the world?  Or would the other muslim entities (hard to call some of them actual countries) push back?  It seems to me much of what is going on there smacks of civil war.  Under suddam , iraq was basically secular.  At least the two major religious parties we kept in check.  With the removal of him and our invasion by war criminal bush and cheney, all that was changed.  And we will suffer from that for ages now.  Why not withdraw and let them do each other in.  After all it really is their part of the world to do with as they think they need to do.

At this point, I don't think pulling out would make any difference.  On the other side of that coin, staying there probably doesn't make any difference either.  But ISIS wants us there.  I believe that's why they are goading us.  I believe we are fighting an unwinnable war.  Now that does not mean that the militants will win.  No one will win.  There will only be misery and bloodshed for a lot of people.  I cannot imagine how or if our government has even defined winning in the Mideast.  I don't think they have.  We are there for political reasons purely to satisfy the voters who still believe we can make a difference.  We will only leave when enough Americans get tired of it.  But we will not leave because we have won anything.

[Mike Cl]

At this point, I don't think pulling out would make any difference.  On the other side of that coin, staying there probably doesn't make any difference either.  But ISIS wants us there.  I believe that's why they are goading us.  I believe we are fighting an unwinnable war.  Now that does not mean that the militants will win.  No one will win.  There will only be misery and bloodshed for a lot of people.  I cannot imagine how or if our government has even defined winning in the Mideast.  I don't think they have.  We are there for political reasons purely to satisfy the voters who still believe we can make a difference.  We will only leave when enough Americans get tired of it.  But we will not leave because we have won anything.

I'm afraid you are right.

[josephpalazzo]

Just asking------
What would happen if we (the US) withdrew all troops from the middle east, as well as all of our material; and stopped all air strikes, including our drone attacks.  (I wonder how much hatred is caused each and every time we use a drone??)  Would the US them be engulfed with a huge wave of Islamic fervor?  Would isis suddenly become this monolithic huge power that would engulf the world?  Or would the other muslim entities (hard to call some of them actual countries) push back?  It seems to me much of what is going on there smacks of civil war.  Under suddam , iraq was basically secular.  At least the two major religious parties we kept in check.  With the removal of him and our invasion by war criminal bush and cheney, all that was changed.  And we will suffer from that for ages now.  Why not withdraw and let them do each other in.  After all it really is their part of the world to do with as they think they need to do.

If you would take nothing else in consideration, you would be right. However, there are two factors that come to my mind:

1) The oil reserve in the ME is huge, and it is in the interest of the USA to see that the flow of oil is uninterrupted.
2) There is a substantial risk that nukes might be developed. If Iran every develops nukes, Saudi Arabia and Egypt would do everything to get a nuclear arsenal - the hate between Sunnis and Shiites is beyond anything we can imagine. Again, this requires for the US to play a major role in that region.

[Mike Cl]

Well, Joseph, when you say this "1) The oil reserve in the ME is huge, and it is in the interest of the USA to see that the flow of oil is uninterrupted. "  Hits the nail right on the head.  I don't suppose we could ever think of leaving until or unless the corporate world okays it.

[Hydra009]

Just asking------
What would happen if we (the US) withdrew all troops from the middle east, as well as all of our material; and stopped all air strikes, including our drone attacks.  (I wonder how much hatred is caused each and every time we use a drone??)  Would the US them be engulfed with a huge wave of Islamic fervor?  Would isis suddenly become this monolithic huge power that would engulf the world?  Or would the other muslim entities (hard to call some of them actual countries) push back?  It seems to me much of what is going on there smacks of civil war.  Under suddam , iraq was basically secular.  At least the two major religious parties we kept in check.  With the removal of him and our invasion by war criminal bush and cheney, all that was changed.  And we will suffer from that for ages now.  Why not withdraw and let them do each other in.  After all it really is their part of the world to do with as they think they need to do.

What Josphpalazzo said, plus Islamist groups like ISIS would encounter less opposition, Iran and Saudi Arabia would fill the power vacuum and their ongoing power struggle would intensify, a few U.S. allies (Kuwait, Jordan) would be periodically threatened and perhaps toppled eventually.  It wouldn't be the end of the world, but U.S. interests in that area would certainly plummet.

[Mike Cl]

What Josphpalazzo said, plus Islamist groups like ISIS would encounter less opposition, Iran and Saudi Arabia would fill the power vacuum and their ongoing power struggle would intensify, a few U.S. allies (Kuwait, Jordan) would be periodically threatened and perhaps toppled eventually.  It wouldn't be the end of the world, but U.S. interests in that area would certainly plummet.

Yes, I see all that, and quite agree.  But, exactly what interests do we really have there?  Corporate interests?  We do not get most of our oil from that region--we get most of it from Canada and ourselves.  So, what interests do we really need to protect?  And aren't the drone strikes eroding much of our 'good' influence there?

[Hydra009]

Oil and more oil, with security threats to allies second, humanitarian concerns a distant third.

And yes, more oil is imported from Canada than Saudi Arabia.  But there are quite a few ME countries on that list and so we're still fairly reliant on them.  The spice must flow.

[josephpalazzo]

Yes, I see all that, and quite agree.  But, exactly what interests do we really have there?  Corporate interests?  We do not get most of our oil from that region--we get most of it from Canada and ourselves.  So, what interests do we really need to protect? 

You need see this beyond the corporate interests. Should the ME turn into an infernal chaos, the disruption in the flow of oil might very well tank the world economy, and by repercussions, the US economy. The US as the world police would have to extinguish so many fires in such a world, besides seeing its economy tailspinning down, that at that point, the terrorists will indeed be in a position to claim victory.

And aren't the drone strikes eroding much of our 'good' influence
there?

They are, but it's a small price to pay, considering the alternative is a world of chaos.

[Solitary]

Are we not in a world of chaos from religion and politics? 

[Mike Cl]

Yeah, well, thanks you guys for dragging me back to reality.  I just like to engage in some wishful thinking at times.