affirmative action

[shortbusgangsta]

You're not for equality if you think he should "shut the fuck up".

Think about it.

-Nam

that's a lot coming from someone who repeatedly called me an idiot and a bitch!!
I believe in equality, not the modern feminist bullshit or the modern affirmative action

is that scandalous to you?

also, you go back and proof read everything you speak on your phone?  I'm truly at edified!

[Nam]

that's a lot coming from someone who repeatedly called me an idiot and a bitch!!
I believe in equality, not the modern feminist bullshit or the modern affirmative action

is that scandalous to you?

also, you go back and proof read everything you speak on your phone?  I'm truly at edified!

You called someone else a "bitch", and so I called you a "bitch". If you wish to call me a "bitch", go right ahead. And, I never called you an idiot...as of yet. Implying you may be an idiot isn't the same as actually calling you one.

I proofread everything I post. I sometimes miss something but I do proofread every single thing I post.

-Nam

[Berati]

If someone is looking for the ten best basketball players and they are all black men does it make sense to say half of them have to be women and we need a white person an Asian a Mexican and Arab and a native american?

give the position to the person who does the job the best. Duh!If you need the ten best mathematicians and they are all women or they are all Asian give the job to those who do it best.If the people that are applying for the job are almost all black, don't feel guilty for hiring a whitey whose more educated, experienced, or suited for it.

If I was a fat guy In a wheelchair and a fire person was coming to my rescue, would I want a woman to grab me by the ankles and drag my fat ass down a flight of stairs, or a male who can put me over his shoulder and carry me. If you want someone who can restrain derelicts doped up on PCP and stabilize prison riots the average male applying for the job is more suited for that type of work than the average female.

There are a lot of jobs where the women who are applying will do the job better. Its bullshit that a whole gender couldn't vote but if you are hiring people give the job to the person whois best suited for it rather than feel guilty about being prejudice.The other philosophy is irrational and bad for civilization

The problem is that you're trying to see the world in black and white and it just isn't that way, and you have zero sense of history.

Affirmative action has been used to compensate for past discrimination by the ruling class of this and other cultures, and to address existing discrimination. It has succeeded to some decree in this. The fact that it's not a perfect solution and that you can point out problems doesn't mean much given what has occurred.

Think about it. We kept people as slaves for hundreds of years. We kept women out of higher education for centuries. And your solution is what? "I'm all for equality"... now! Oh, you're all about justice right? Do you not see how this comes off as completely self serving and ignorant of our own history?

[shortbusgangsta]

The problem is that you're trying to see the world in black and white and it just isn't that way, and you have zero sense of history.

Affirmative action has been used to compensate for past discrimination by the ruling class of this and other cultures, and to address existing discrimination. It has succeeded to some decree in this. The fact that it's not a perfect solution and that you can point out problems doesn't mean much given what has occurred.

Think about it. We kept people as slaves for hundreds of years. We kept women out of higher education for centuries. And your solution is what? "I'm all for equality"... now! Oh, you're all about justice right? Do you not see how this comes off as completely self serving and ignorant of our own history?

I think our nation's history and our treatment of blacks and Native Americans is absolutely horrifying and despicable!
however,  the Native Americans were killing each other and destroying other tribes before we ever got here. And the slaves that Americans purchased from Africa were already slaves in Africa and currently in Africa there is still slavery today.

there is an enormous amount of violence and slavery  in Africa and the Middle East, far more than what we see in europe and america, therefore I'm not too fond of all this white guilt these days, but yes I find despicable the way that Europeans have colonized other nations and treated aboriginals like they are not human beings!  That is not the point !what Im saying is that affirmative action should not reach a level of using a history of white guilt and misogyny as an excuse to give jobs to the under qualified on the basis that in the past they were discriminated against.

[Nam]

I think our nation's history and our treatment of blacks and Native Americans is absolutely horrifying and despicable!
however,  the Native Americans were killing each other and destroying other tribes before we ever got here

They all were? Evidence?

. And the slaves that Americans purchased from Africa were already slaves in Africa and currently in Africa there is still slavery today.

What college do you go to?

there is an enormous amount of violence and slavery  in Africa and the Middle East, far more than what we see in europe and america

You got half that right. The two most violent places (by continent) on Earth are Africa and South America.

http://list25.com/25-most-violent-places-in-the-world/

The Middle East is a part of Asia.

therefore I'm not too fond of all this white guilt these days, but yes I find despicable the way that Europeans have colonized other nations and treated aboriginals like they are not human beings!  That is not the point !what Im saying is that affirmative action should not reach a level of using a history of white guilt and misogyny as an excuse to give jobs to the under qualified on the basis that in the past they were discriminated against.

It's not "white guilt", it's the idea that white people have this idea (in general) they are superior to other races. It's not just White Supremacists who hold to this idiocy, they just have the veracity to be truthful about it. This is not to say that other races may not feel the same way about their race but whites seem to take it to a greater and more violent (socially/economically) place than perhaps other races. That, and those who are Christian most definitely (in general) think they are far superior to everyone else.

-Nam

[shortbusgangsta]

I never said they all were!

U can start here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa

[Nam]

I never said they all were!

U can start here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa

You really don't get it; and I like how you mainly focus just on the one point, and ignore the rest.

I'll play your game.

1. How is it relevant that slavery already existed in Africa before it did in the US?

2. How is it relevant that slavery still exists today compared to slavery no longer existing in the US (though, that in of itself isn't entirely true)?

3. How is "white guilt" an attribution of Affirmative Action?

4. What does Native Americans warring with each other have anything to do with Affirmative Action today, or when first imposed?

5. Do you actually know the definition of "equality"?

-Nam

[Shiranu]

Oh fuck me dry, I was going to ignore this but god damn some of this shit hurt to read...

...the Native Americans were killing each other and destroying other tribes before we ever got here.

Not on mass scale as the Europeans did it. There is a difference between killing a competing tribe and the mass slaughter and relocation of every brown skinned man, woman or child on the entire Eastern bit of the continent (and eventually more inland, as well). Numbers are just details though...

And the slaves that Americans purchased from Africa were already slaves in Africa and currently in Africa there is still slavery today.

Not all of them, no. I personally do not know the numbers, but I know both the English and Portuguese (and other's as well I would assume) lead expeditions to find new tribes and ship them to the New World.

Also; there is slavery in Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, Latin America (amongst drug cartels particularly), the United States (human trafficking is still a huge issue here)... I don't know about Australia, to be honest. Antarctica is probably the only continent you won't find any slavery on.

Finally; oh, that makes it better then. The people who sold them against their will was evil, so it was okay-ish to do evil things to the people who were taken against their will. Brilliant logic there.

That's all I could really get through. Also...

... not the modern feminist bullshit...

Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. This shit. This shit here. This shit here again.

God damn it, internet, this shit is getting old.

[Nam]

^you ruined my whole questioning.

-Nam

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Can we ever fuck off with the "white guilt" bullshit?

Modern white culture in the US does not have "white guilt", far from it in fact.

I've experienced actual white guilt in the various punk shows/parties I've been to. I've seen people (mostly hipster and posicore looking folk....not a judgement but an observation) actually lament the fact that they were born white, and rebuke me because I didn't think that being white in and of itself was a bad thing. What the fucking racists shitheads call white guilt is white people recognizing that the white power structure gives them a huge societal advantage and working to counter that.

Shit, the white power structure even ends up hurting poor whites. In rural areas it encourages the "bootstraps" idea even though that is fucking retarded in today's economic climate, and in urban areas where poor whites are stuck in the same ghettos as other races it fosters a distrust of white people in general.

Basically the only people a white power structure helps are rich white people and "acceptable rich minorities". This isn't limited to white people, of course, it's just that some groups of white people happened to set up a nice way to colonize and exploit other people. If it happened in Africa it would be a "black power structure". If it happened in Asia it would be a "yellow power structure". The simple fact is that it doesn't matter what race has the societal advantage, any one race being above others hurts all.

[Berati]

I think our nation's history and our treatment of blacks and Native Americans is absolutely horrifying and despicable!

Great, so what are you prepared to do about it?

however,  the Native Americans were killing each other and destroying other tribes before we ever got here. And the slaves that Americans purchased from Africa were already slaves in Africa and currently in Africa there is still slavery today.

How does the fact that others committed the same crime absolve us of our own?

That is not the point !what Im saying is that affirmative action should not reach a level of using a history of white guilt and misogyny as an excuse to give jobs to the under qualified on the basis that in the past they were discriminated against.

White guilt has zero to do with this. It's about justice. Restitution is justice. Doing nothing would be the injustice. Keep in mind that restitution has a cost.
Think about that guy who kept those girls trapped for years and years. What you are saying is that just freeing them is enough. It's not enough.
In this case, the crime wasn't one person against another, it was one culture against another. Far more complex, but still a crime.

As I've already said:
"Affirmative action has been used to compensate for past discrimination by the ruling class of this and other cultures, and to address existing discrimination. It has succeeded to some decree in this. The fact that it's not a perfect solution and that you can point out problems doesn't mean much given what has occurred."

[Icarus]

I think our nation's history and our treatment of blacks and Native Americans is absolutely horrifying and despicable!
however,  the Native Americans were killing each other and destroying other tribes before we ever got here. And the slaves that Americans purchased from Africa were already slaves in Africa and currently in Africa there is still slavery today.

Small Pox killed the Native Americans at a rate no amount of firepower could keep up with (at the time). They fought each other, but not even close to the point of destruction. You're summation of African slavery and the slave trade of the 1700-1800's is interesting, not accurate in any way, but interesting.

[wolf39us]

I don't dabble into this subject much so bear with me here.  I'm confused as to how restitution is an appropriate solution 200 years after the fact?

The African Americans of today have nothing to do with slavery so what is there to pay back? 

[shortbusgangsta]

Naaah yare the one who needs to shut the fuck up, kiddo. You already demonstrated your ignorance and inability to understand the simplest concepts on the subject you brought up, your capacity of historical perception and so on. You are only having a cheap rant. You are not offering an understanding of anything. And yours is a widely known rant. Painfully ordinary, based on personal failure and good old misogyny. Grow up.

Tl:dr; You are spewing low quality bullshit. That doesn't work around here. If you really followed the forum before joining as you said, you didn't get a thing.

could you quote me where I said something that indicated that I'm misogynistic.?

also, making restitution to those who are harmed by European bigotry is often impossible nowadays because we cant raise people drom the dead.

But affirmative action is better than no action at all.

Finally; oh, that makes it better then. The people who sold them against their will was evil, so it was okay-ish to do evil things to the people who were taken against their will. Brilliant logic there.

Im not saying that. That would be absurd.

[Jason78]

I don't dabble into this subject much so bear with me here.  I'm confused as to how restitution is an appropriate solution 200 years after the fact?

The African Americans of today have nothing to do with slavery so what is there to pay back? 

I've always felt that the appropriate response for free men of liberty would be to oppose slavery where ever it is found.   There are still slaves in this world today.   An appropriate restitution to the slaves of 200 years ago would be to make sure that no human being ever has to suffer being the possession of another ever again.