Author Topic: Origins of famous quotes, myth or truth?  (Read 1021 times)

Offline Brian37 (OP)

Origins of famous quotes, myth or truth?
« on: June 21, 2014, 08:33:23 AM »
Recently I have had fellow atheists attack me for quoting Hypatia's famous quote "Fables should be taught as fables and myths as myths", yadda yadda.

And "let them eat cake" as attributed to Marie Antoinette.

Now I have done several searches and cannot find any lagit source that shows these to be frauds.

Having said that I do know humans are notorious for writing their own history after the fact.

But here is the thing, even if these quotes are born out of social conscious to me, they still reflect the idea of promoting fact over superstition in the case of Hypatia and the idea of economic justice for the poor in rejection of a Oligarchy or Monarchy with a class monopoly, in the case of Marie Antoinette.

I am willing to concede if proven wrong that these are merely legends. But the ideas behind them still are valid would some not agree?
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Re: Origins of famous quotes, myth or truth?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2014, 12:28:11 PM »
I agree. And I have found a disturbing amount of quotes from Christian sites that are disingenuous and false from Einstein to Hawking, or any other great scientists. They never give the source of the quotes. Unless a quote gives a time and place it cannot be verified, and even if it is there is no way to know if it is true or not. Just like the Bible, and quote may be a lie, but the message may still be a good or bad one. Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

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Re: Origins of famous quotes, myth or truth?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2014, 01:10:53 PM »
"the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"...actually was said by a teresa de cepada about 400 years earlier. She is now a saint..oooooh. Anyway, I read this many a year ago either in  Seldes's "The Great THoughts" or in any number of books of quotes I used to absorb....too much booze now, me mine is not the same.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Nam

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Re: Origins of famous quotes, myth or truth?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2014, 07:59:14 PM »
And "let them eat cake" as attributed to Marie Antoinette.

Now I have done several searches and cannot find any lagit source that shows these to be frauds.

I guess it depends on what you consider a "legit" source. Is this legit:

http://www.history.com/news/ask-history/did-marie-antoinette-really-say-let-them-eat-cake

or

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/marie-antoinette-134629573/

And there are many other sources that say she either didn't or it's highly unlikely she did.

Also, Al Gore never said he invented the internet -- something else he said taken out of context.

Sarah Palin never said she could see Russia from her house. -- Saturday Night Live came up with that.

Voltaire never said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall said that in reference to Voltaire.

-Nam
Mad cow disease...it's not just for cows, or the mad!

Offline Nam

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Re: Origins of famous quotes, myth or truth?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2014, 08:19:51 PM »
"the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"...actually was said by a teresa de cepada about 400 years earlier. She is now a saint..oooooh. Anyway, I read this many a year ago either in  Seldes's "The Great THoughts" or in any number of books of quotes I used to absorb....too much booze now, me mine is not the same.

Actually there's debate about that. If given significant attribution, it would go to Michel de Montaigne.

Mad cow disease...it's not just for cows, or the mad!

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Re: Origins of famous quotes, myth or truth?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2014, 08:28:23 PM »
if there is a debate then the attribution is still kinda debatable . None the less, this is simply another example of how "quotes" are very often misattributed, or even worse, simply wrong.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Origins of famous quotes, myth or truth?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2014, 09:15:35 PM »
Wikiquote is pretty good at catching disputed/misattributed quotes and okay about sourcing quotes.  Def worth a check before posting about Jefferson's veranda or saying that George Washington said "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" (that one's actually from the Treaty of Tripoli)