Author Topic: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure  (Read 8837 times)

Offline SGOS

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2014, 11:10:02 AM »
I think we lost those wars because everyone knew they were farces. Restricted wars, not total war. WWII was the last total war.
It's hard to win a war when you restrict your options.  However, in terms of what we are talking about here, I would suggest that the purpose of recent wars has not been to win.  It's more to stuff the pockets of favored sectors of our population.  Winning would end the chaos too soon.  There would be too much money not spent that could further enrich the favored.

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2014, 11:57:47 AM »
The only time you can say an empire has collapsed is when it actually has.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2014, 12:30:04 PM »
The only time you can say an empire has collapsed is when it actually has.

True enough. I don't see the US collapsing in the sense of the Roman Empire. There's nobody out there with the wherewithal to invade. But economically, with the level of greed shown by the oligarchy, there will be a greater separation of rich and poor and the loss of what we really need, a progressive mindset to deal with our problems and move us forward.

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2014, 12:33:51 PM »
True enough. I don't see the US collapsing in the sense of the Roman Empire. There's nobody out there with the wherewithal to invade. But economically, with the level of greed shown by the oligarchy, there will be a greater separation of rich and poor and the loss of what we really need, a progressive mindset to deal with our problems and move us forward.
Elysium option.

But, of course, that just puts the US more in line with the rest of the planet.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2014, 01:09:58 PM »
Elysium option.

But, of course, that just puts the US more in line with the rest of the planet.

I seriously hope that movie is not prophetic.

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2014, 01:11:36 PM »
It's hard to win a war when you restrict your options.  However, in terms of what we are talking about here, I would suggest that the purpose of recent wars has not been to win.  It's more to stuff the pockets of favored sectors of our population.  Winning would end the chaos too soon.  There would be too much money not spent that could further enrich the favored.

^ This!

"The favored" = the multi-billionaires.
Members of Congress, the Feds, the cops, the justice system, and the media are only their liberally remunerated executive puppets. Corruption incarnate.
Democracy in 'the land of the free' is just a galaxy-sized sad joke. 'Voters' have no power whatsoever. 'The system' is rotten to the core. Time for a new revolution.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 01:16:10 PM by Mandingo »

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2014, 01:49:10 PM »
I seriously hope that movie is not prophetic.
Ever been to Rio?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline AllPurposeAtheist (OP)

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2014, 02:13:47 PM »
Define winning. When we end up with 100s and 1000s of people killed and maimed and returning with their lives ruined it hardly counts as a 'win'. There is no winning.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2014, 03:12:00 PM »
Define winning. When we end up with 100s and 1000s of people killed and maimed and returning with their lives ruined it hardly counts as a 'win'. There is no winning.
The Civil War had the highest casualty rate.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2014, 03:46:03 PM »
The Civil War had the highest casualty rate.

In WWII the USSR suffered 40 times as many casualties as the US did. 20 million lives lost. Most Americans ignore that completely.

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2014, 03:47:01 PM »
In WWII the USSR suffered 40 times as many casualties as the US did. 20 million lives lost. Most Americans ignore that completely.
Yep, most. Most Americans believe in God.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2014, 07:29:56 PM »
Yep, most. Most Americans believe in God.

That tells you how much common sense they have...

Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2014, 09:28:50 PM »
I get your point, but I wonder if the family members of those killed, maimed, detained, tortured or displaced as a result of said wars would agree on the 'restricted' part. I don't think they would.
I did mean "restricted war" as opposed to "total war" — they're technical definitions. This does not diminish the horror of their suffering.
Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
(she bites!)
Spinny Miko Avatar shamelessly ripped off from Iosys' Neko Miko Reimu

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2014, 09:38:15 PM »
That tells you how much common sense they have...
I quite agree. But then we could say that about any group of people anywhere. Twenty years in the USN gave me the chance to observe countries and their inhabitants. The thing I noticed most was that we all start out sounding the same, then society starts trying to make us live down to its expectations.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2014, 07:52:07 AM »
I don't know of anybody else who uses "total war" like that.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers