Author Topic: What is existence?  (Read 4224 times)

Offline mediumaevum (OP)

What is existence?
« on: June 07, 2014, 11:56:20 AM »
I've googled Existence, and found this article on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence#Existence_in_the_wide_and_narrow_senses

However, it did not answer my question.

Some star some far away from our galaxy that does not influence our lives at all, or at any point, and which we might not know wether to exist or not, does it exist anyway?
Of course it does. Even though it does not affects us in any way what so ever, the star exists regardless of wether we believe in its existence or not. Einstein expressed it as:
"The moon exists no matter if I look at it or not" (now, this is a poor example, because the moon does affect our life, ie, Tides, causing the sealevel to rise and fall.

However, even if the moon did not affect anything on the planet Earth, I'd still say it exists.

Something does not have to exist in relation to something else, in order to exist, which is what many people tend to believe in these days of "relativity-thinking".

There IS an absolute Truth, we don't know what it is, but it is still there.

Offline SGOS

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2014, 12:05:35 PM »
Where's Casperov when you need him?

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2014, 03:05:26 PM »
Where's Casperov when you need him?

Casparov and Mediumaevum in a one on one. Truly a battle for the ages.

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2014, 06:07:33 PM »
What exactly do you want to know about existence?

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2014, 06:38:19 PM »
What exactly do you want to know about existence?

If it exists?

Offline aitm

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2014, 12:05:25 PM »
Humanity has had at least two great moments of arrogance, the first being that a "god" created the universe just for them, the second that they and they alone define what is and what is not.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline DunkleSeele

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2014, 04:18:03 PM »
Aaaaand... here comes mediumaevum with another one of his bullshit threads.

I've googled Existence, and found this article on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence#Existence_in_the_wide_and_narrow_senses

However, it did not answer my question.

Some star some far away from our galaxy that does not influence our lives at all, or at any point, and which we might not know wether to exist or not, does it exist anyway?
Of course it does. Even though it does not affects us in any way what so ever, the star exists regardless of wether we believe in its existence or not. Einstein expressed it as:
"The moon exists no matter if I look at it or not" (now, this is a poor example, because the moon does affect our life, ie, Tides, causing the sealevel to rise and fall.

However, even if the moon did not affect anything on the planet Earth, I'd still say it exists.
OK, until here we are more or less factual.

Quote
Something does not have to exist in relation to something else, in order to exist, which is what many people tend to believe in these days of "relativity-thinking".
Relativity thinking? What the hell would that be?
Quote
There IS an absolute Truth, we don't know what it is, but it is still there.

Aaahhhh I see... IF something exists it does independently of our experience, therefore GAWD!

Listen, dimwit: if a star exists it exists, still if we don't know anything about it we can't make any statement about its existence. No, scratch that, let me put it in simpler words, so maybe your single brain cell will grasp it: there is no evidence of a gawd, period. No amount of mental masturbation on your side will change this simple fact.

Now go back to your mom's basement.

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2014, 04:46:59 PM »
I've googled Existence, and found this article on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence#Existence_in_the_wide_and_narrow_senses

However, it did not answer my question.

Some star some far away from our galaxy that does not influence our lives at all, or at any point, and which we might not know wether to exist or not, does it exist anyway?
Of course it does. Even though it does not affects us in any way what so ever, the star exists regardless of wether we believe in its existence or not. Einstein expressed it as:
"The moon exists no matter if I look at it or not" (now, this is a poor example, because the moon does affect our life, ie, Tides, causing the sealevel to rise and fall.

However, even if the moon did not affect anything on the planet Earth, I'd still say it exists.

Something does not have to exist in relation to something else, in order to exist, which is what many people tend to believe in these days of "relativity-thinking".

There IS an absolute Truth, we don't know what it is, but it is still there.

The existence of something is only relevant if it affects us. If we are never able to know about its existence in any way shape or form, or even the effect it has on us, then why bother? It's a hypothetical existence without bearing on our reality.

We observe the universe around us and are slowly putting the puzzle together. We do not know whether we will ever complete this puzzle, or are only able to see one side of a 3d puzzle. They are not things we can know (perhaps yet), and the existence or lack there-of of these is irrelevant with our current knowledge.

Sure, the star might exist, in fact, it's plausible it could exist because we see them all over the observable universe. But it's still irrelevant aside from a possible prediction based on our current understanding, which may well be wrong.

Did I get any of this wrong? Be gentle. ;)

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2014, 05:51:36 PM »
There IS an absolute Truth, we don't know what it is, but it is still there.


The theist position is: We don't know or We cannot possibly know, therefore, I do know.

Offline mediumaevum (OP)

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2014, 12:48:16 PM »
Aaaaand... here comes mediumaevum with another one of his bullshit threads.
OK, until here we are more or less factual.
Relativity thinking? What the hell would that be?Aaahhhh I see... IF something exists it does independently of our experience, therefore GAWD!

Listen, dimwit: if a star exists it exists, still if we don't know anything about it we can't make any statement about its existence. No, scratch that, let me put it in simpler words, so maybe your single brain cell will grasp it: there is no evidence of a gawd, period. No amount of mental masturbation on your side will change this simple fact.

Now go back to your mom's basement.

Excuse me, but when did I write about any "God" in my Original Post?

I was, in-fact, refering to politics (I didn't make it clear before now, because I first wanted to settle that there is an ultimate truth).

Such as: Which agricultural policies are the best, which health policies are best, which social policies are best, etc.

We don't really need to discuss those things once we figure them out. What I wanted to say is that if we find "the truth", we will know what policies to adapt in our society.

I wasn't talking about God. Unless, of course, we are talking religious policies, ie. Islamists or Christian nuts, versus Secular, Secular is the way to go, we know that for sure.
Even believers in deities must acknowledge that secularism is THE way of politics.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 12:51:12 PM by mediumaevum »

Offline mediumaevum (OP)

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2014, 12:56:44 PM »
Why are you people so cruel towards me? You assume I am a christian nut or something and you don't talk nice to me. Everything I write, no matter if I agree with you or not, I
am in the position of ridicule. Even if I wrote the same shit as you wanted to write yourself, before you could write it yourself, you would make it into a ridicule of me!

I am 100 % certain that if I were to write this OP in another username, you would not write the shit you wrote, DunkleSeele.

YOU are the one talking bullshit!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 12:58:33 PM by mediumaevum »

Online PickelledEggs

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2014, 12:58:35 PM »
Why are you people so cruel towards me? You assume I am a christian nut or something and you don't talk nice to me. Everything I write, no matter if I agree with you or not, I
am in the position of ridicule. Even if I wrote the same shit as you wanted to write yourself, before you could write it yourself, you would make it into a ridicule of me!
I actually didn't even realize you were still here. Good to see you again
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2014, 01:10:59 PM »
Why are you people so cruel towards me?

Because we hate you.

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2014, 01:33:39 PM »
Why are you people so cruel towards me? You assume I am a christian nut or something and you don't talk nice to me. Everything I write, no matter if I agree with you or not, I
am in the position of ridicule. Even if I wrote the same shit as you wanted to write yourself, before you could write it yourself, you would make it into a ridicule of me!

I am 100 % certain that if I were to write this OP in another username, you would not write the shit you wrote, DunkleSeele.

YOU are the one talking bullshit!

I don't know you, nor was I cruel to you, at the very least you could reply to me in earnest instead of reacting like you are to the others in the thread. Although it appears to me the people around here have tried to explain things like this multiple times to you and likely gotten tired of it.

Offline mediumaevum (OP)

Re: What is existence?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2014, 02:35:26 PM »
I don't know you, nor was I cruel to you, at the very least you could reply to me in earnest instead of reacting like you are to the others in the thread. Although it appears to me the people around here have tried to explain things like this multiple times to you and likely gotten tired of it.

I was refering to DunkleSeele's post.

Your post was the only serious response. I'd like to thank you :)