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Patriotism

Started by aitm, May 25, 2014, 10:49:58 PM

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aitm

Assume the usual obligatory apologies and excuses.......
okay?


good.

Don't you think "patriotism" would be a pretty natural occurrence in a society where most people were considered part of the society? I mean lets face it the gladiators certainly had no allegiance nor would slaves, but in a "normal" society or culture "patriotism" would be no more than self preservation of ones life and of ones family and friends.

But along comes elitism, or perhaps power...or wealth..and the idea that using this concept and calling it "patriotism" could be pretty goddamn useful and very profitable. Why waste your kids when you can convince others to willingly die for your economic well being under the guise of "patriotism"? And lord help the fuckers who would DARE to oppose such noble actions as the patriot. The mother who just last month hated the government and the idea of military is now forced...indeed FORCED to not just wave the flag of patriotism but spew the rhetoric and champion the cause against all common sense and knowledge simply as a way to justify her son or daughters impending death as a greater good for all instead of a minion in the game of economics for a few who shall never ever feel that same illustrious if not mistaken sense of patriotism.

And for the rest of their lives they themselves force themself to follow this argumen,t to uphold it even when deep down they so vehemently disagree that they privately vomit at night.

And we hold politicians to pointedly pin little fake flags to their label to show us how that some fucking how makes them patriots.

I am a patriot only if I want to be. For if I am demanded to be, then how can I truly be one?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

The Skeletal Atheist

Fuck patriotism. It's a fucking shield put up to avoid criticism of the military, or it's increasingly used by fucktard conservatives along with "take back America" (whatever the fuck that means). I'm proud of my country when it does things worth being proud of, but I'm not going to blindly wave a flag around like it's the greatest country on Earth just for being there.
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!

aitm

I think that even some veterans are becoming just a little too wrapped up in making sure everyone knows they deserve to get a pat on the back. If you only have warm and fuzzies during one day, you are most certainly not a patriot.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

stromboli

Patriot is the most over used word in our society. Any monkey cab call himself a patriot. I have a ship's hat my son bought me for one of the ships I was on, but I don't wear it now. And I don't fly the flag, though I used to. The idea has lost all meaning and I don't want to be identified with the pinheads hereabouts that proclaim their patriotism on everything they own.

stromboli

Another side to that is I live a few miles from a Harley Davidson dealership. Not knocking Harleys, they are nice bikes. But it seems every nut bag right wing "patriot" owns one, for every day I see these guys and girls going past with enough "Murica, love it or leave it" shit on them to decorate ten parades. Guys with POW-MIA patches that are too young to have served in iraq, much less Nam. Just about every 4th guy here is a retired military. I see so many hats that even my fairly unique one gets lost in the maze. Patriotism has lost all meaning, so I don't even use the word anymore.

Gawdzilla Sama

I did twenty years in the USN. I didn't do it for the money.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Green Bottle

Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on May 25, 2014, 11:10:21 PM
Fuck patriotism. It's a fucking shield put up to avoid criticism of the military, or it's increasingly used by fucktard conservatives along with "take back America" (whatever the fuck that means). I'm proud of my country when it does things worth being proud of, but I'm not going to blindly wave a flag around like it's the greatest country on Earth just for being there.
I agree  Skeletal, an its being used in much the same way over here by those against independance for Scotland.  Im proud of my country also but when all this flag waving nonsense starts it really fkn annoys me, Scotland as part of the UK was dragged into an illegal war by Bush and Blair and many soldiers died for nothing really, the sooner the west gets th fk out of the middle east th better  imo
God doesnt exist, but if he did id tell him to ''Fuck Off''

Gawdzilla Sama

Good thing there's only one definition/usage of a word, simplifies the reflexive responses to it.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

La Dolce Vita

There's nothing wrong with feeling a certain camaraderie with your countrymen, fellowship is important in a society. Being proud of the things your country does right, caring about how it functions, voting for improvements and taking part in said processes is also good. One should always try to better society, and when you care about something there's nothing wrong with being proud when it's well deserved.

Ignoring when your country does something wrong, holding it sacred, etc. is on the other hand 100% destructive and should be avoided at all cost.

AllPurposeAtheist

#9
If just half the world's citizenry knew the true meaning of patriotism the word would be struck from every language on earth, but then replaced with some other bullshit, meaningless term such as "Aren't we all just fucking wonderfulism".
Part of the problem is patriotism conjures up some fuzzy idea, but completely shoves under the rug the true reasons we do this shit in the first place.
Maybe we should call it all Gary Sinisism. Isn't that a nice fuzzy Hollywoodism?
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

aitm

I remember well my brother and him getting drafted, Patriotism and the draft kinda is somewhat contradictory. But we went and survived but he never drank the kool-aid. Now at his age, I think he has some real real resentment with the whole NEW re-vitalised patriotism that is being forcibly swept across the land. Now he is very very patriotic, far more than ever before. And I know many like him who are resentful and rightfully so, because of the treatment they recieved, but I am somewhat surprised he is not interested in engaging in his old "truth-talk". I appreciate, like we all do, supporting the poor bastards being forced to sacrifice themselves so billionaires can become richer, I am just disappointed that more don't acknowledge the truth behind the whole military bullshit and put and end to this non-spoken truth of the idea of patriotism.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

AllPurposeAtheist

Go to the VA and the "patriotism" sales job is in full force, but amazingly not as many people there are really buying. You see plenty of guys wearing this fake bomber jackets with whatever branch they were in, but you don't hear much talk about patriotism. I hear a lot of criticism of the military and the clown show that is "leadership".
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Solitary

 :biggrin2: From instant quotation dictionary.  :kiss: Staff.

QuoteThis heroism at command, this senseless violence, this accused bombast of patriotism---how intensely I despise them! Albert Einstein
:butt: Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

AllPurposeAtheist

Just watched a CNN puff piece about a guy who got both legs blown off and now he jumps out of airplanes and everything is peachy, but what the message is really is if you have any problems with the military it's YOUR problem so suck it up and be a tough guy. How patriotic to tell us that men and women who serve and who do have problems with health, mental health, etc., are just pussies and not as tough as this guy. Patroitically suck it up. Fuck you CNN.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

aitm

Thats the point APA, cherish and worship and hail those who are normal,,,,if yer missing body parts,,,well,,, you're just  expendable,
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust