News:

Welcome to our site!

Main Menu

Naïve Immaterialism

Started by Berati, May 19, 2014, 05:45:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Berati

This is my response to your question Casparov.
QuoteI am asking for proof. The sentence you have written is, "I have given you proof," which I cannot accept as proof. You neglect to reference this alleged "proof". You neglect to even hint at what this alleged "proof" may have been. I have no idea what you are talking about. If you have proof in support of Materialism then provide it please. I am begging you!

You are not begging me, you simply refuse to answer me. You have failed to address anything I have said so far and just pretend it was never said. You want me to repeat myself, so here it goes… step by step. And keep in mind all of this has been presented to you before.
I'll only deal with one step at a time.


1)   I think therefore I am = I think therefore thought is all that there is. (and thought = God)

This is an assumption. If you agree this is an assumption then you now have to allow that materialism is at least as a possible as immaterialism.
Agree or disagree?

Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

SGOS

Why would a logical person even attempt to engage Casparov?  You know the outcome.  You will be flooded with word salad, gibberish, and ignorance.  He is beyond understanding and operates outside the confines of reason.  Nothing constructive will come of it.

DunkleSeele

^^^This. Casparov has shown nothing else than intellectual dishonesty, in the same fashion as the other religious fundies we use to get here. The fact that he abandoned the debate he himself asked for speaks volumes about him. A waste of good oxygen.

Berati

Quote from: SGOS on May 20, 2014, 04:47:00 AM
Why would a logical person even attempt to engage Casparov?  You know the outcome.  You will be flooded with word salad, gibberish, and ignorance.  He is beyond understanding and operates outside the confines of reason.  Nothing constructive will come of it.
You're right but I want to try anyway.
Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

stromboli

Quote from: SGOS on May 20, 2014, 04:47:00 AM
Why would a logical person even attempt to engage Casparov?  You know the outcome.  You will be flooded with word salad, gibberish, and ignorance.  He is beyond understanding and operates outside the confines of reason.  Nothing constructive will come of it.

^ yeah. Pseudo intellectual quantum gish gallop ftw!

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: SGOS on May 20, 2014, 04:47:00 AM
Why would a logical person even attempt to engage Casparov?  You know the outcome.  You will be flooded with word salad, gibberish, and ignorance.  He is beyond understanding and operates outside the confines of reason.  Nothing constructive will come of it.
This is pretty much why I only engage him with my copypasta "proof of no gods" post. I know it's annoying. That's the point.
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

Solitary

I like to educate people is why I do, but when it goes in one ear and out the other it is frustrating. I like the challenge, and it makes me put my thinking cap on so I don't get stupid.  :doh: Besides it is funny listening to their use of Slick Maneuvers.  :wink: Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Berati

Quote from: Solitary on May 20, 2014, 12:08:10 PM
I like to educate people is why I do, but when it goes in one ear and out the other it is frustrating. I like the challenge, and it makes me put my thinking cap on so I don't get stupid.  :doh: Besides it is funny listening to their use of Slick Maneuvers.  :wink: Solitary

I agree and since this thread was started as my personal response to Casparov I was hoping to avoid others pilling onto his responses.
Not that I mind input from others but I have my own plan and I would prefer not to get sidetracked.

Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Bibliofagus

#8
Quote from: Berati on May 20, 2014, 12:29:10 PM
I agree and since this thread was started as my personal response to Casparov I was hoping to avoid others pilling onto his responses.
Not that I mind input from others but I have my own plan and I would prefer not to get sidetracked.

Why don't you just request a one-on-one debate?
:jook:

(sorry, coundn't resist)

Also: Casparovs line of reasoning basically comes down to solipsism. And in solipsism no thing needs a - known - cause. Everything goes. It's a total cop out and completely useless. I don't understand why people give this shit so much time. A one-on-one debate for an issue that can be settled in one sentence? Follow up threads on this shit? Really?
Quote from: \"the_antithesis\"Faith says, "I believe this and I don\'t care what you say, I cannot possibly be wrong." Faith is an act of pride.

Quote from: \"AllPurposeAtheist\"The moral high ground was dug up and made into a walmart apparently today.

Tornadoes caused: 2, maybe 3.

Berati

Quote from: Bibliofagus on May 20, 2014, 12:35:14 PM
Why don't you just request a one-on-one debate?
:jook:

(sorry, coundn't resist)

Also: Casparovs line of reasoning basically comes down to solipsism. And in solipsism no thing needs a - known - cause. Everything goes. It's a total cop out and completely useless. I don't understand why people give this shit so much time. A one-on-one debate for an issue that can be settled in one sentence? Follow up threads on this shit? Really?

Sure, why can't the debate happen right here?
As to his line of reasoning... I agree with you, and yet Casparov cannot see it himself... and others (myself included) have still managed to get sidetracked into debates about scientific experiments which in the end have nothing to do with Casparovs beliefs.
Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Berati

Quote from: DunkleSeele on May 20, 2014, 05:25:22 AM
^^^This. Casparov has shown nothing else than intellectual dishonesty, in the same fashion as the other religious fundies we use to get here. The fact that he abandoned the debate he himself asked for speaks volumes about him. A waste of good oxygen.
I see that he has abandoned the formal debate so I doubt I'll ever get a reply.
Of course, you are all correct in that it is a fruitless debate since Casparovs belief is purely faith based. I still like discussions with these types for the same reason a cat will use a dead unmoving post to sharpen its claws.

If there is one thing I can take away from this it's that Ghost for brains did try a crafty way of insisting for proof for a purely philosophical/ non falsifiable position. Many of us did in fact try to provide the proof but we should have instead referred him to the Demarcation Problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarcation_problem   
Quote"The demarcation problem in the philosophy of science is about how to distinguish between science and nonscience,[1] including between science, pseudoscience, other activities, and beliefs."

Of particular annoyance was the total intellectual dishonesty and faking being polite.

"Oh please dear kind sirs... I only want to be open minded, I beg thee for evidence.:hang:

I can put up with the irrational arguments, missing the point, misinterpreting Quantum Interpretations for proven facts, etc... but that kind of fake politeness was extremely disgusting to have to tolerate.
Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Solitary

Casparov was the most disingenuous person I have ever seen on any forum I have been on. I have never seen so many slick maneuvers from anyone else accept Deepak Chopra. And you are correct his fake sweetness was like eating caramel pancakes with syrup on them.  :sick: Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Contemporary Protestant

What if Casaprov is Deepak Chopra?

Mr.Obvious

"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Bibliofagus

Quote from: Berati on May 20, 2014, 06:29:15 PM
Sure, why can't the debate happen right here?

No problem with me. :popcorn:

Quote from: Berati on May 20, 2014, 06:29:15 PM
As to his line of reasoning... I agree with you and yet Casparov cannot see it himself...

Do you really believe that?

Quote from: Berati on May 20, 2014, 06:29:15 PM
and others (myself included) have still managed to get sidetracked into debates about scientific experiments which in the end have nothing to do with Casparovs beliefs.

I'm quite clueless about why that is happening.
This forum used to be - a lot - more unfriendly and impatient towards bullshit like Casparovs'.
Quote from: \"the_antithesis\"Faith says, "I believe this and I don\'t care what you say, I cannot possibly be wrong." Faith is an act of pride.

Quote from: \"AllPurposeAtheist\"The moral high ground was dug up and made into a walmart apparently today.

Tornadoes caused: 2, maybe 3.