Honesty

[phattmatt (OP)]

One part of christian moraliry that would be nice to discard is the ban on lying.  Some people who I respect very much I won't lie to.  But ive come to realize that I'm either gonna have to give up this pick and choose state of affairs or I'll chust wind up living a dishonest lifestyle. 

An honests life must be all or nothing.  I can't just choosen who I'll be honest with, "or I'll just lie under these circumstajces." It doesnt work that way.  Once I start lying I lose that control.  Can't speak for others but it is the only way I'll live a sober life.  Being honest at all times.  F course you can lie if your hiding jews from the gestapo for instance, however.


Dou you have similar views on honesty?

[Poison Tree]

So you can't say "I'll just lie under these circumstances" and you'll "be honest at all times" expect under circumstances similar to "hiding Jews from the gestapo, for instance" 

Do I have similar views on honesty? I'm still trying to figure out what your views on honesty are. Sounds like you do have circumstances under which you would lie so you will not be honest at all times, your claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

[stromboli]

My life experience is that at some point lying will come back to get you. I lied a lot as a kid. Since then I've learned to be honest. People don't trust you when they catch you lying. the trick is learning to keep your mouth shut and say nothing. I've been put upon by people to give an opinion and I will simply say that I don't have one. It is also true about lying on a forum- eventually it will come back to bite you.

[Solitary]

This is not a black and white issue. Lies can hurt, and telling the truth can hurt. This is the problem I have with organized religion with its black and white thinking which results in absolutes. "Wrong to kill period! Really? "Never hurt people." Really. I have been through a surgery with no anesthesia to save me from immanent death. Ever have a gastric tube put through your nose and shoved down your throat? Not every shall not is absolutely wrong or right. How about the latest from religious nuts: "There is only one kind of marriage that is right---our kind." : "There's only one kind of sex that is correct, missionary position and between a man and woman!"  Solitary

[phattmatt (OP)]

So you can't say "I'll just lie under these circumstances" and you'll "be honest at all times" expect under circumstances similar to "hiding Jews from the gestapo, for instance" 

Do I have similar views on honesty? I'm still trying to figure out what your views on honesty are. Sounds like you do have circumstances under which you would lie so you will not be honest at all times, your claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

I dont consider honesty to be a noble quality or virtue when it endangers others.  If you are going under cover to rescue children from the human sex trade honesty is not a good policy because of the lives that will be ruined as a result of those who could be rescued by a dishonest act/operation.

[phattmatt (OP)]

This is not a black and white issue. Lies can hurt, and telling the truth can hurt. This is the problem I have with organized religion with its black and white thinking which results in absolutes. "Wrong to kill period! Really? "Never hurt people." Really. I have been through a surgery with no anesthesia to save me from immanent death. Ever have a gastric tube put through your nose and shoved down your throat? Not every shall not is absolutely wrong or right. How about the latest from religious nuts: "There is only one kind of marriage that is right---our kind." : "There's only one kind of sex that is correct, missionary position and between a man and woman!"  Solitary

I'm calling bullshit!  The bible doesnt say you can't hose your wife from behind.

[the_antithesis]

If Survivor has taught us anything it's that honesty will get you voted off the island.

[doorknob]

this is not a black and white issue obviously there are times when lying is important and necessary. But in most every day life situations lying is not a good policy as it always comes back to get you in the end. I consider myself a fairly honest person but it's not like I never lie. That would be impossible. There are some situations where you have to lie to keep the peace. For example "does this make me look fat?" loaded question I know but obviously saying yes is unwanted and unhelpful. 

[Johan]

The social norms of our society make it impossible for anyone to be 100% honest 100% of the time. Yet it is very easy to be true to your morals and still function within a society that more or less requires dishonesty on occasion. The way you do that is to accept that when we say it is wrong to lie, what we really mean is that it is wrong to lie with malicious intent.

Telling the police I did not steal that money, when you actually did is lying with malicious intent. Telling someone who just asked you for a date next saturday that you have already made plans when you haven't is lying but its doing so with no malicious intent. The difference is very easy to understand.

[PickelledEggs]

I don't lie or even sugar coat things to anyone. I'm pretty much as up front and straightforward as you can get. People that can handle my honesty choose to stay my friends and the ones that choose not to were never really my friends in the first place.

In the words of Dr. Seuss: "Say what you mean and mean what you say because the people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind."

Btw. congrats on starting a good thread.

[phattmatt (OP)]

Why tank u kind sir!  Is this the only one?

[phattmatt (OP)]

If Survivor has taught us anything it's that honesty will get you voted off the island.

Could you please explain?  I'm sure it's a very thoughtful statement but it's tough to miss out on your wisdom cuz I don't know what the fuck you're talking about!