Author Topic: Former Muslims?  (Read 2132 times)

Re: Former Muslims?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2014, 07:28:35 PM »
Another important concept is "subrogation" If any of the holy instructions contradict each other, you are supposed to obey the later passages instead of the earlier ones. This explains why many of the later passages that are very violent hold more sway. As islam gained power Mohamed suddenly found it convenient to start insisting that those in power get to call the shots.

I've never heard of "subrogation" but I suspect you mean abrogation? Anyhow, you make a very excellent point! The author(s) of the Quran changed stance on several issues through out its authorship. The constant change of mind isn't the work of an infinitely intelligent mind. You mean to tell me the same being/entity that coded DNA wrote this gruesome fable book? Yea, sure.

Offline Thomoose

Re: Former Muslims?
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2014, 09:06:55 PM »
To me the Quran seems like a more disgusting version of the Bible, both are fake and contradict themselves a lot.
"You see, I learned something today ...  threatening people with violence. That's obviously the only true power. If there's anything we've all learned, it's that terrorizing people works." - Kyle Broflovski, South Park Episode 201 (uncensored)

Re: Former Muslims?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2014, 12:12:46 AM »
I've never heard of "subrogation" but I suspect you mean abrogation? Anyhow, you make a very excellent point! The author(s) of the Quran changed stance on several issues through out its authorship. The constant change of mind isn't the work of an infinitely intelligent mind. You mean to tell me the same being/entity that coded DNA wrote this gruesome fable book? Yea, sure.

Yes, you are correct, I should have said abrogation.
I can't get work out of my brain. Subrogation is the right for an insurer to pursue a third party that caused an insurance loss to the insured.
Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Re: Former Muslims?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2014, 12:22:07 AM »
To me the Quran seems like a more disgusting version of the Bible, both are fake and contradict themselves a lot.

The old testament is every bit as morally repulsive, however it does have the peacnik Jesus figure to offset the depravity of the old testament.
Unfortunately there is no such countering force in the Quran.
I wrote an essay awhile back explaining why I thought that it isn't correct to simply lump all religions together like many liberals do.
I believe that the specifics of these ideologies have an effect on the followers. I'll post it if I still have a  copy somewhere.
Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Re: Former Muslims?
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2014, 03:52:33 AM »
the Quran is best serve in Arabic but you can still be amused when translated. As a former Muslim I can't really imagine how a non-muslim who read Quran for the first time will receive it. It is a very depressing book with absolutely ill structure , very disorganized and random. You will find it hard to properly follow a story or a lecture without been distracted by unnecessary threats or promises.
bottom line try to imagine ,when you read it, the time and the place where Quran was written at, it will give you a clearer vision on what is ahead of you. 

Re: Former Muslims?
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2014, 02:37:00 PM »
I'm not a Muslim but I have tried to learn as much as I could about Islam after the 9/11 attacks.
My take is that like other holy books it's a set of instructions that you are not allowed to question.

Overall, the point is submission. i.e. you submit to the will of allah, and allahs will is given to you by Mohammed. Like other holy books you are expected to believe that god has to have a middle man, that god secretly whispers into this persons ears, and that you better do exactly as this person says or he and his followers will fuck you up.

Another important concept is "abrogation" If any of the holy instructions contradict each other, you are supposed to obey the later passages instead of the earlier ones. This explains why many of the later passages that are very violent hold more sway. As islam gained power Mohamed suddenly found it convenient to start insisting that those in power get to call the shots.

The Hadith (stories of Mohameds life) are also very important. All Muslims are supposed to try and behave like Mohammed since he was the perfect example. Unfortunately he often behaves like a murderous terrorist, he takes sex slaves, he has boys beheaded, he is a pedophile, etc... and this obviously leads to very poor examples of how civilized people should behave.

Let me just make it clear that we need to separate Muslims from Islam. Like Christians, most Muslims don't bother to find out what is in their own holy books. 
The largest group being victimized by islam are Muslims.


I went to a mosque once to cover the Muslim Student Association, not sure if I mentioned this once. Much of it I don't remember, but one thing I do remember is the imam priest dude saying (paraphrased): "God told people. 'I didn't make you because I was lonely. I didn't make you because I wanted company. I created you to worship me."

Hence the reason I will never convert to Islam, or any of the Abrahamic faiths. It's always the same thing. You have to spend the rest of your life telling a deity how great he is because he was too stupid to figure that out after making the ENTIRE universe.
It took science to do what people imagine God can do.
--ApostateLois

"The closer you are to God the further you are from the truth."
--St Giordano

Re: Former Muslims?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2014, 08:33:22 PM »
I'm not a former Muslim or a Muslim. I'm only an ex-Christian who live in a Musiim Ghetto in France (there are between 20-40% of the poppulation in my neighboorhood) where the indigenous European are the majority (Indigenous French like me are a minority but I don't care). Even if this is a Muslim Ghetto you have few chance to be mobbed , robbed or killed. (I precise it because generally these zones contain a high rate of criminality).
If you want to know the reasons , you can ask me.

There are many manners to read it (I can't cite all of them).

The Islamic way :
You read it in Arabic with the help of a translation or not and you read the comments about these verses who was made by Muslim Scholars.
These comments are called tafsir (Arabic : تَفْسِير). This Arabic word can be translate by the
English word interpretation.
You can find these here (Unhappily those who was wrote by Ibn Kathir [Arabic : ابن كثير] aren't here) : http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=0&tSoraNo=1&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=no&LanguageID=2

A Skeptical way :
This the Skeptic's annotated Quran : http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/QuRAn/

Your own.

PS : If you want I can write for you a dictionnary of Arabic term. I can also make a list of pro-Islam ressources and critic of Islam if you ask.

Offline phattmatt

Re: Former Muslims?
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2014, 09:57:27 PM »
the Quran is best serve in Arabic but you can still be amused when translated. As a former Muslim I can't really imagine how a non-muslim who read Quran for the first time will receive it. It is a very depressing book with absolutely ill structure , very disorganized and random. You will find it hard to properly follow a story or a lecture without been distracted by unnecessary threats or promises.
bottom line try to imagine ,when you read it, the time and the place where Quran was written at, it will give you a clearer vision on what is ahead of you.
thank you!  I'm glad u noticed that.  I always wondered if muslims actually found the koran to be coherent.