Author Topic: The Bible thumpers are back.  (Read 21553 times)

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #165 on: August 09, 2014, 05:05:56 PM »
is there no way to check phattmatt and oliver's IP code and see if it matches. I only suggest it because years ago I got banned on a wow forum for starting a religious debate against muslim extremism which was not permitted, tried to make another account, but got banned again when they discovered my IP was the same. I learned that one the hard way.
As /b/ says, "Use a proxy? I used SEVEN!"
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Shiranu

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #166 on: August 09, 2014, 05:06:59 PM »
He registered November of last year. If oliver IS phattmatt, he has been lurking around for a VERY long time.

Matt did imply he had accounts that weren't banned yet, so it's quite possible he set up accounts from time to time just for when he made his move.

If nothing else besides pathetic, it at least shows some dedication. Delusional, pathetic dedication but minor props for trying. And since he trolls other forums it's quite possible he is like... that mob-whatever Quebec guy... that bothered atheist communities for years.

Always some weirdo or another out there...

Quote
As /b/ says, "Use a proxy? I used SEVEN!"

Pretty much this. There is always a way around a ban so long as you are patient and resourceful. Technology is not very air-tight.

Offline Munch

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #167 on: August 09, 2014, 05:08:51 PM »
I've never been very technically savvy ^^
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #168 on: August 09, 2014, 05:17:33 PM »
Oliver kind of reminds me of Eve in a way....  In her pre-rampage phase. He gives off the impression that he's dumb as a post, but at least he's nice about it.

Phattmatt may very well have many accts on here that just are for lurking. He did say that he did, and I've had my suspicions about it even before I was a mod.

Phattmatt is smart, but we have been learning his tricks as he throws them at us.

Sent from your mom


Offline Munch

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #169 on: August 09, 2014, 05:25:21 PM »
Can I just ask, since I've probably missed where its said it, but on average how many accounts are active on AF?
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #170 on: August 14, 2014, 03:58:39 AM »
Actually you guys bring up some good points..  I suppose I could become an Atheist.. we're all searching for something.. right?

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #171 on: August 14, 2014, 04:04:26 AM »
I am open to new ideas, it's the religious die-hards that are difficult to get through to..  I guess I do tend towards Atheism more and more in light of what religion has done to the world.

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #172 on: August 14, 2014, 04:08:51 AM »
and no I'm not phattmat, just to clear that up

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #173 on: August 14, 2014, 11:15:20 AM »
Actually you guys bring up some good points..  I suppose I could become an Atheist.. we're all searching for something.. right?
I think becoming anything because you're "searching" is the wrong reason. Remember, atheism is one position on one issue. You cannot build an entire worldview around one issue.

I (briefly) made a similar mistake as a teen. I was already an atheist at that point, but I was "searching." I eventually ran across the works of Anton LaVey, and decided to go along with it since it was an "atheist religion." After about a year I figured out that Satanism was completely psychobonkers, but in the meantime I came very close to destroying a lot of friendships over my new pet religion. It's not something I look back at with pride.

I'm currently a Secular Humanist; not because I picked it as a new pet ideology, but because I agree with its central philosophy. I used that philosophy to, among other things, rebuild my moral compass from the ground up. Any time I find something in that moral compass that's left over from my upbringing, I question it, and I try to decide if it's worth keeping. If I can't decide, I try to get better informed so that I can come back to the issue; often through research, but sometimes through classes.

"Ground-Up Morality," as I like to call it, tends to be completely alien to a lot of theists I talk to. Unlike "Top-Down Morality," there is no god whose teachings it will ever agree with. Indeed, many conclusions reached by TDM are either contradicted by GUM, or ignored altogether. To some groups, it might sound like just an excuse to commit acts of sin as such. If you envision these two moral systems as pyramids, though, it makes a lot more sense.

TDM is like an upside-down pyramid. It covers a lot of subject matter at the top, but there really isn't much on the bottom to support it. The conclusions it reaches are juicy targets for questioning, and the only thing keeping the pyramid from tipping over is the apologists who rush in to right it again; though the apologists themselves might say that the hand of an almighty being actively prevents the pyramid's fall anyhow. GUM, on the other hand, is just a plain old pyramid. Compared to TDM, there really isn't a whole heck of a lot of stuff at the top; but what is there is in very little danger of ever failing, because there's so much to hold it up that this morality pyramid is more than capable of standing on its own.

GUM can be mistaken for the Golden Rule (which, contrary to popular belief, did not originate from Jesus, but rather Confucius), but there are some key differences. To start with, the actual words "treat others as you wish to be treated" will never be found in a GUM system; in fact a true GUM starts with "how I want to be treated" and "how others want to be treated" as two separate concepts, and they typically don't intersect until you actually reach your conclusion(s). Second, any GUM system has to apply that second part in a selfish manner in order to make any sense. (In contrast to the Golden Rule, which has you apply it for no reason other than it's how you would want to be treated. Sounds good, but it's actually quite weak as an argument.) The reason for this, of course, is that everything must be justified from the ground up. These concepts, for example, are drawn from basic, biological survival needs, which is about the lowest ground you could possibly build up from. (Again, contrast to the Golden Rule, which tries to support a concept with a concept: sounds good, but very weak as an argument.)

So if you want an example, any moral conclusions drawn from "how others want to be treated" ultimately has to come from a survival perspective: "How is this going to affect me?" As a pack animal who will ultimately be driven by instinct to form social bonds during encounters with other members of your species, particularly with relatives, another question you have to resolve is, "How is this going to affect me and mine?" So in the end, how you treat other people is going to be determined by how you believe they will react. Many conclusions, such as "do not steal" and "do not murder" can be reached through this method; but of course, you're not using one method to arrive at them. Starting from "how I wish to be treated" will bring you to the same conclusions, reinforcing them, but not actually crossing over with that other chain of logic. Now you have two conclusions, each being doubly reinforced. Of course, these two angles we just used to approach those conclusions are not the only two you can use; in my case, personally, I think I have at least a couple dozen chains of logic anchoring these conclusions alone. We'll leave that discussion for another time, though.

What I hope I've gotten across with this is that I'm not an atheist, agnostic, Secular Humanist, or whatever else just for shits and giggles. I didn't arrive at this position by "searching." I did some serious research and a lot of serious thought to get where I am today. And you know what? I'm not finished. I will never be finished, and I'm not even sure if I want to be finished. The combination of external and internal discovery that constructing, knocking down, rebuilding, and reinforcing this moral pyramid keeps me sharp; staying sharp keeps up my mental wellbeing; my mental wellbeing is one of the basic imperatives of my moral pyramid. Therefore, I have a moral obligation to never stop doing this. Oh, hey, look what I did there. Hehe.

Good golly that was long-winded of me, I apologize. I don't usually do the wall-of-text thing.
Black lives matter, feminism is good, religion is bullshit, and if you disagree with me on any of these points you are a fucking moron.

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Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #174 on: August 14, 2014, 02:38:13 PM »
Actually you guys bring up some good points..  I suppose I could become an Atheist.. we're all searching for something.. right?
I'm searching for my car keys...

Sent from your mom


Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #175 on: August 14, 2014, 03:32:53 PM »
Interesting post by Hijiri Byakuren.  I don't have the time to read through it now but will do later.  Thanks for your input here.

Offline Munch

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #176 on: August 14, 2014, 04:47:35 PM »
I've never known a single story of athiests trying to force feed their beliefs on people, unlike organised religions do, so nobody here is going to force how we see the world on others.

That doesn't mean we don't express how we see the world in vigorous ways, but theres the difference, you won't hear stories of abusive fathers hitting there 5 year old sons for 'taking the lawds name in vain'.
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Online Hydra009

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #177 on: August 14, 2014, 05:18:40 PM »
I am open to new ideas, it's the religious die-hards that are difficult to get through to..  I guess I do tend towards Atheism more and more in light of what religion has done to the world.
That's actually a terrible starting point.  Being an atheist in reaction to religious people's bad behavior makes no more sense than being a heliocentrist because of geocentrists' bad behavior.  It's just not relevant and should your impression of religious people change, there goes your entire position.  Instead, atheists typically start from skepticism regarding supernatural claims.

Also, I gotta second what Hijiri Byakuren said.

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #178 on: August 15, 2014, 04:14:59 AM »
That's actually a terrible starting point.  Being an atheist in reaction to religious people's bad behavior makes no more sense than being a heliocentrist because of geocentrists' bad behavior.  It's just not relevant and should your impression of religious people change, there goes your entire position.  Instead, atheists typically start from skepticism regarding supernatural claims.

Also, I gotta second what Hijiri Byakuren said.

It is hard to rid oneself of a belief which is embedded in our thinking.   Because of certain convictions and experiences I've had it is going to take a lot of analysing.  It will take time though

Offline Green Bottle

Re: The Bible thumpers are back.
« Reply #179 on: August 15, 2014, 11:10:25 AM »
Actually you guys bring up some good points..  I suppose I could become an Atheist.. we're all searching for something.. right?

I am open to new ideas, it's the religious die-hards that are difficult to get through to..  I guess I do tend towards Atheism more and more in light of what religion has done to the world.


Now he wants us to think he may be starting to come round to our way of thinking , no fuckin way Oliver, your well sussed  !!
God doesnt exist, but if he did id tell him to ''Fuck Off''