A Really Cool Link For Your Mormon Friends

[stromboli (OP)]

One of the most important parts of the Mormon history about Joseph Smith is the First Vision account, bcause it is ostensibly the first instance of JS meeting with god. Any exmormon will tell you it is fraught with problems and is obviously a made up account, but it is still debated over by the church and by critics.

To a great extent the truth of the church rests on that account. To quote Gordon B. Hinckley, former (late) president:

“There is no middle ground. Joseph Smith talked with the Father and the Son or he didn’t. If he didn’t, then we are embraced in a great fraud, a terrible fraud.” (“Counsel from the Prophet,” Church News, 4/27/96, 4)

“Our whole strength rests on the validity of that vision. It either occurred or it did not occur. If it did not, then this work is a fraud… upon that unique and wonderful experience stands the validity of this church” (“The Marvelous Foundation of our Faith,” Ensign [Conference Edition], November 2002, 80)

“You and I are faced with the stark question of accepting the truth of the First Vision and that which followed it. On the question of its reality lies the very validity of this Church.”

This website uses a moving bar graph in a very cool way that shows the inconsisties and contradictions in the account. Very cool and very graphic evidence of the BS of JS's claims.

http://firstvisiontimeline.com/

[ApostateLois]

Sounds like Christians when they say, "Either Jesus was the son of God, or he wasn't. And if he wasn't, then our faith is a lie. We have to make a choice as to whether we believe God's word or the claims of man." And so on.

[Mandingo]

Sounds like Christians when they say, "Either Jesus was the son of God, or he wasn't. And if he wasn't, then our faith is a lie. We have to make a choice as to whether we believe God's word or the claims of man." And so on.

...and like Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoïsts, Taoïsts, Falun Gong, etc. etc., when they say ... (you fill in).

[PickelledEggs]

Sounds like Christians when they say, "Either Jesus was the son of God, or he wasn't. And if he wasn't, then our faith is a lie. We have to make a choice as to whether we believe God's word or the claims of man." And so on.

The last time someone told me something like that I couldn't hold in my laughter and they got really mad at me... which only made my laughter worse... They don't talk religion to me any more... haha

[Solitary]

I don't have any Mormon friends, just former Mormon friends.  Solitary

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Luckily I do not have the displeasure of having Mormon friends. Most religious friends of mine are "Generic Christian". They'll go to church on Sunday then go drink, party, and have premarital sex right afterwards.

[Mandingo]

Most religious friends of mine are "Generic Christian". They'll go to church on Sunday then go drink, party, and have premarital sex right afterwards.

I.o.w. hypocrite liars to the core.
And those are 'friends' of yours?
Hmmm.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

I.o.w. hypocrite liars to the core.
And those are 'friends' of yours?
Hmmm.

In other words most young "Christians" in the southern United States, or anywhere else in the United States really. Do you really think that just because they profess Christianity they're going to follow all the tenates? If so you have quite a bit to learn about human nature.

Compaired to the ones who just go to church because they were brought up to do so, the fundies are just a vocal and sadly in some parts influential minority. Why should I care how much they follow their religion's tenates as long as they leave me alone? For me it is preferable they don't follow their religious tenates, otherwise they would be antigay fundies. Luckily people are progressing, and what we are hearing now in the US are the deathknells of the homophobic religious movement. Sure, they'll still be around for a long time, but their ability to get young followers or the support of the masses is being effectively neutered.

All that being said, in the region I live in Christianity is as much a cultural thing as it is a religious thing. Young people will go to church not because they're devote Christians, but because Church is the best place to socialize, see what's going on in another person's life, and to possibly find a hot piece of ass to later seduce. If I excluded my circle of friends to people who didn't profess any kind of religion I'd be quite alone for the most part. BTW, all my friends know I'm an atheist and that I'm gay, they're just fine with me being gay and we don't talk religionoften. When we do I speak my mind, but otherwise it isn't an issue.

[Mandingo]

In other words most young "Christians" in the southern United States, or anywhere else in the United States really. Do you really think that just because they profess Christianity they're going to follow all the tenates? If so you have quite a bit to learn about human nature.

Compaired to the ones who just go to church because they were brought up to do so, the fundies are just a vocal and sadly in some parts influential minority. Why should I care how much they follow their religion's tenates as long as they leave me alone? For me it is preferable they don't follow their religious tenates, otherwise they would be antigay fundies. Luckily people are progressing, and what we are hearing now in the US are the deathknells of the homophobic religious movement. Sure, they'll still be around for a long time, but their ability to get young followers or the support of the masses is being effectively neutered.

All that being said, in the region I live in Christianity is as much a cultural thing as it is a religious thing. Young people will go to church not because they're devote Christians, but because Church is the best place to socialize, see what's going on in another person's life, and to possibly find a hot piece of ass to later seduce. If I excluded my circle of friends to people who didn't profess any kind of religion I'd be quite alone for the most part. BTW, all my friends know I'm an atheist and that I'm gay, they're just fine with me being gay and we don't talk religionoften. When we do I speak my mind, but otherwise it isn't an issue.

Like I said: hypocrite liars to the core.
And those are 'friends' of yours?
Hmmm.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Like I said: hypocrite liars to the core.
And those are 'friends' of yours?
Hmmm.

Gee, your social gatherings must be a blast. What the hell do you expect? That every Christian be fundie to the core, otherwise they must be atheist? That I constantly remind them that they should bash me for being gay and atheist so as to be true to their religion?

Of course there's cognitive dissidence within them, but until they ask me for my thoughts it isn't my place to be a fucking asshole and act like they're fucking morons for being culturally conditioned to be Christians. I'll call out anyone who has harmful beliefs, like homophobia or racism, but when it comes to some kind of security blanket I'm not going to pull that bandaid off unless they ask me to.

Once again why the fuck should I care if they reject the harmful parts of Christianity? We're on track to see a generation of young Christians who support gay rights, want less religion in the public square, and are pro choice and antisexism and you look at that as a bad thing? Fuck you, you condescending asshole. We should be glad they're making progress and leaving the harmful shit behind, not condemning them immediately for not following every faucet of their shitty religion or not being atheist.

When Christians come on here I of course don't hold back, but that's because this is an atheist forum. Atheistforums.com is not the real world. When a Christian or anyone else who holds a delusional belief comes on here they should know what to expect. You're a fucktard if you think I'm just going to go around screeching at young Christian, who once again were culturally conditioned to be Christians, that they are hypocrits and liars just because they have rejected the hateful parts of the Bible but aren't ready to jump into atheism.

Once again: fuck you, you condescending fuckwad.

[Mandingo]

Gee, your social gatherings must be a blast. What the hell do you expect? That every Christian be fundie to the core, otherwise they must be atheist? That I constantly remind them that they should bash me for being gay and atheist so as to be true to their religion?

Of course there's cognitive dissidence within them, but until they ask me for my thoughts it isn't my place to be a fucking asshole and act like they're fucking morons for being culturally conditioned to be Christians. I'll call out anyone who has harmful beliefs, like homophobia or racism, but when it comes to some kind of security blanket I'm not going to pull that bandaid off unless they ask me to.

Once again why the fuck should I care if they reject the harmful parts of Christianity? We're on track to see a generation of young Christians who support gay rights, want less religion in the public square, and are pro choice and antisexism and you look at that as a bad thing? Fuck you, you condescending asshole. We should be glad they're making progress and leaving the harmful shit behind, not condemning them immediately for not following every faucet of their shitty religion or not being atheist.

When Christians come on here I of course don't hold back, but that's because this is an atheist forum. Atheistforums.com is not the real world. When a Christian or anyone else who holds a delusional belief comes on here they should know what to expect. You're a fucktard if you think I'm just going to go around screeching at young Christian, who once again were culturally conditioned to be Christians, that they are hypocrits and liars just because they have rejected the hateful parts of the Bible but aren't ready to jump into atheism.

Once again: fuck you, you condescending fuckwad.

Hmmm.
At least many Xtians have waaay better manners than this atheist gay hypocrite.
:-D

[The Skeletal Atheist]

How the hell am I a hypocrite? What have I done that I said I was against?

You make no sense, fucktard. Go play with your toys and hope that you'll find real love one day (you won't).

[Mandingo]

And clairvoyant too!
Have you risen again, Lord?

[stromboli (OP)]

And clairvoyant too!
Have you risen again, Lord?

What? Who the fuck are you to judge someone without walking in their shoes or knowing what situation he has to deal with? You are no more qualified to judge or label than any of the hypocritical bigots in fundie land. In fact your doing so makes you sound like one. If you want to prove to the forum you are a judgmental asshole you are doing a fine job.

[Mandingo]

Yeah, I can see where you got that.