Group Polarization

[PJS]

Social psychologists recognize that if a group is like-minded, discussion within that group strengthens its prevailing opinions. This can be beneficial or detrimental depending on the common views within a group. Additionally, it should be acknowledged that atheists are of different minds on most topics, but is there a tendency in discussions among atheists for people to gravitate toward stronger condemnations of all things associated with religion? Is there a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater and condemn any methods or rituals simply due to their historical associations with religion? I think rituals, ethical codes, a sense of community  and self-transcendence are too important to be bound up in supernatural beliefs and wonder if we secular folks are sometimes too closed off from these benefits.

[SGOS]

For the most part, I think ritual of any kind is rather pointless.  I don't go around condemning it.  It's just something I'm not interested in.  I realize most people like rituals.

[GSOgymrat]

Social psychologists recognize that if a group is like-minded, discussion within that group strengthens its prevailing opinions. This can be beneficial or detrimental depending on the common views within a group. Additionally, it should be acknowledged that atheists are of different minds on most topics, but is there a tendency in discussions among atheists for people to gravitate toward stronger condemnations of all things associated with religion? Is there a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater and condemn any methods or rituals simply due to their historical associations with religion? I think rituals, ethical codes, a sense of community  and self-transcendence are too important to be bound up in supernatural beliefs and wonder if we secular folks are sometimes too closed off from these benefits.

I know I am guilty of this. There are ideas and behaviors that I tend to discount without giving them full consideration because they are associated with religion. I am working on this.

[Solitary]

Psychologists, says it all to me, because it is just their opinion, and not necessarily a fact.  So a group of atheists don't have a sense of community? How are secular folks closed off to those questionable benefits when religious folks are in a secular nation? Who's ethical codes? Aren't all rituals based on magical thinking?  What is self-transcendence? From the historical evidence of religion, and still, with its superstitious nonsense and magical thinking and how it has held back progress for the human race, it should be condemned for anything related to it that has caused so much grief. As to rituals---that like saying a drunk is happier than a sober man. Everything about religion is denial of reality, childish, and irrational. It denies death, it believes magic is real, it believes fantasy is real to feel good, while wishing bad things would just go away with their magic man if they wish hard enough and click their shoes together. Solitary

[PJS]

Psychologists, says it all to me, because it is just their opinion, and not necessarily a fact.  So a group of atheists don't have a sense of community? How are secular folks closed off to those questionable benefits when religious folks are in a secular nation? Who's ethical codes? Aren't all rituals based on magical thinking?  What is self-transcendence? From the historical evidence of religion, and still, with its superstitious nonsense and magical thinking and how it has held back progress for the human race, it should be condemned for anything related to it that has caused so much grief. As to rituals---that like saying a drunk is happier than a sober man. Everything about religion is denial of reality, childish, and irrational. It denies death, it believes magic is real, it believes fantasy is real to feel good, while wishing bad things would just go away with their magic man if they wish hard enough and click their shoes together. Solitary

It's not "opinion" but a result of empirical studies that we know group polarization occurs. It's quite easy to find the research if anyone is interested. Second, my point was not that secular folks could not derive the benefits that can accrue from the methods and structure that religion often supplies, but that sometimes atheists avoid anything that religion touches -as your post demonstrates. When you state phrases like 'everything about religion" you make my point. Rituals can be both secular and provide stability and comfort. Self -transcendence simply means a devotion to causes larger than oneself -be it family, nation, truth, beauty, justice...

My main argument is to avoid the histrionic allergy to religion as the methods and practices can be beneficial within a secular framework.

[stromboli]

Absolutely. We live in a world steeped in ritual, from simple things like tying your shoes a certain way to ward off danger, to skipping over cracks in the sidewalk to weddings, coronations and whatever. Best example I can think of was my daughter's wedding inOctober- essentially a secular wedding in every aspect but the inclusion of a stomped on wine glass and some "Hava Nagila" in the dancing to celebrate my son in law's heritage from his mother. Very fine wedding, in every sense; presided over by a judge, not a pastor.

And I've been to a secular funeral where the death of a cousin was more about celebrating his life and accomplishments, and the words "sure and certain resurrection" were not spoken. Rituals have been part of human behavior since before recorded history, by all means they should be celebrated and enjoyed.

[Shiranu]

I consider myself a very "ritualistic" person but also consider myself fully atheist. I think it would really depend on what sort of atheist you are talking about; if you are talking about the blunt, "I don't believe in god" atheist then I think it may not be so common. However if you talking about a, or a group of, more militant atheist(s)... then I think that group polarization would be far more common amongst them.

Here anyways we don't very often have a consensus, even on religious topics, to have a group think develop.

[stromboli]

I wrote a personal note on here about my daughter's wedding awhile back, referring to the nature of the wedding as the joining of two clans. Weddings from ancient day served as more than the union of two people, and often had political significance. Whether a wedding is secular or religious, the significance of it has to do with two families joining and creating a larger or con- joined clan. The ceremony itself has many elements that are ritualistic, from the presentation of the bride and various toasts and so on.

Yes, ritual is very important in human behavior.
http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.php/t-107046.html

Quote:
recently watched a new Nova episode titled "Ape Genius." In this episode we watch mostly chimpanzees amaze with their deductive skills and mechanical understanding. However one experiment in particular caused me to adjust my sitting posture and stare in disbelief.

This experiment showed young human children sitting with an adult who proceeds to show the child how to "properly" score a candy treat from an opaque box about the size of a small room air conditioner. The chimps were also taught this same candy retrieval method. The way that both the child and chimp were taught was intentionally complex and required many unnecessary and silly moves and gyrations such as pointlessly tapping a stick against a shelf inside the box repeatedly and moving levers that do nothing. Obviously these silly actions actually have no impact on the candy delivery as the candy treat was sitting in the lower chamber already. Both child and chimp do the ridiculous maneuvers and then check for candy after.

However, when presented with the same experiment except that now the candy yielding box is transparent, the chimps no longer do the crazy gyrations and just retrieve the candy without so much as a second though. The human children continue to act out all crazy motions in hopes of continuing to get candy.

Researchers considered this to be evidence of chimp intelligence, however what the Nova producers and the scientists who created this experiment fail to grasp was that the human children were expressing the strong human desire for ritual. This desire we posses to engage in repeated ritualistic behavior is (I think) at the core of our desire to take part in religious behavior and accept weird things. Perhaps ritual is one area that needs more study

Clearly ritual is important to humans. And as PJ pointed out in the OP,
Quote:
"I think rituals, ethical codes, a sense of community  and self-transcendence are too important to be bound up in supernatural beliefs and wonder if we secular folks are sometimes too closed off from these benefits."

I totally agree. Rituals serve a very important function in human society. And to not embrace them simply because of religious context, we are throwing out the baby with the bath water. We can transcend the religious aspects and still involve ourselves in the importance of the ritual's siginificance.