Author Topic: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?  (Read 4137 times)

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2014, 03:27:53 PM »
The news media has to sell NutriSystems. After watching horrific scenes of battle we're interrupted by former fat ass movie star who lost 50 pounds.
All hail my new signature!

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Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2014, 07:37:12 AM »
For the same reason Christianity did during the Dark Ages. Xenophobia and not enough exposure to the outside world. Paranoia and fear. And it does not help that the head character in both books is a tribal gang leader that expects submission and blind loyalty.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers." Obama
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Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2014, 01:10:57 PM »
I may be mistaken but isn't there only 1 version of the Koran as well, unlike the bible which has like 50 different interpretations of it?  That is probably one of the reasons why muslims think Islam is more absolute then Christians do.

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2014, 01:24:58 PM »
I may be mistaken but isn't there only 1 version of the Koran as well, unlike the bible which has like 50 different interpretations of it?  That is probably one of the reasons why muslims think Islam is more absolute then Christians do.

It isn't about how many versions but interpretation. The fact that Islam can call itself the religion of peace and yet provide justification for terrorism is a good explanation of that.

Offline frosty

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2014, 10:03:33 PM »
There are numerous translations of the Quran, and certain words get lost in translation. The Arabic spoken at the alleged time of the Quran's origins is not spoken today.

So, consider how language changes over time. The oldschool Arabic is gone. The Arabic Quran of modern times is translated to many different languages, and Arabic either lacks certain words of other languages or has more than one meaning, or too many words of it's own to describe one thing compared to other languages. I've seen Muslims and other entities discuss and even argue over this before. It's a topic of passionate opinions and stances.

Also, I would gander that Muslims would claim that their book was not altered to then claim that there have the one correct religion from the creator of the Universe. Who wants to think everything they've been told is wrong? Nobody.

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2014, 06:52:53 AM »
Apparently, the Qur'an did get interpreted into different versions not long after Mohammed's death.  The 3rd caliph Uthman recalled all the Qur'ans back in and recompiled what he thought was the original texts back together to create an 'authentic' version. But he had no real idea as to which of it was 'original' and which was not.  This makes the Qur'an just as fallible as any other book.  Not surprisingly, Muslims are unwilling to question the authenticity of their book, much less look into history to assess its origins.

Islamic 'behaviour' is controlled as much (if not more so) by the various hadiths and tafsirs that were written to interpret the Qur'an as by the Qur'an itself.  I understand for various sources that the Qur'an is very disjointed and difficult to access in many areas, despite repeated claims about the power of the language in various passages.  Hence the reliance in many cases on supplementary writings to interpret it.... and yes, there is some crazy shit in there too.  When I get a bit more time I'll try and set up some sort of thread on crazy-ass Islamic writings, it really is quite lulzworthy... or at least it would be if millions of people didn't take it seriously...

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2014, 01:13:14 PM »
When I was still a child I thought religion was about making us better human with love and compassion, but with their promise of life after death it has made us worse than any animal from our ignorance, with a magical man in the heavens giving a reward in heaven for our barbarity to protect an imaginary God and His word. Religion is the worst disease, because it corrupts our humanity by taking away our individualism, making us Borgs, or a collective controlled by idiots. Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Offline SGOS

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2014, 02:21:59 PM »
For the same reason Christianity did during the Dark Ages. Xenophobia and not enough exposure to the outside world. Paranoia and fear. And it does not help that the head character in both books is a tribal gang leader that expects submission and blind loyalty.
Then add a need to be offended at the first opportunity.  Take some umbrage.  Get pissed so Allah knows you defend him.  Watch your peers and see how offended they get.  See how they compete with each other to demonstrate who's the most offended?  It pleases Allah when you get upset when infidels don't believe in him, and he needs to know it really really bothers you or he won't let you into Heaven.

Online Munch

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2014, 05:51:42 PM »
Islamic people are a lot more primitive then other countries. You can measure human development across the world even today, when you look at studies of tribal groups in the amazon, Australia and Bolivia and how these tribal groups can be as primitive today as they were hundreds to even a few thousand years ago, you understand how certain types of people do take longer to develop then others, and given the harse landscape of islamic countries its no surprise they are as backwards as they are when compared to western countries.
this is why they are so hyped about their cave painting sky gods.

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2014, 06:03:04 PM »
Islamic people are a lot more primitive then other countries. You can measure human development across the world even today, when you look at studies of tribal groups in the amazon, Australia and Bolivia and how these tribal groups can be as primitive today as they were hundreds to even a few thousand years ago, you understand how certain types of people do take longer to develop then others, and given the harse landscape of islamic countries its no surprise they are as backwards as they are when compared to western countries.
this is why they are so hyped about their cave painting sky gods.

It's a self-perpetuating situation - the nobs at the top have a vested interested in keeping the peasants in fear, so deny them an access to education and maintain the grip of 7th century ideology over them, the peasants have to believe (or at least appear to believe) the shite in order to protect their own existence, tin-pot dictatorships and absolute monarchies are bankrolled by the west, the oil keeps flowing in, the arms keep flowing out, the dictators and the western neocons all make a profit and the whole farce continues....

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2014, 09:17:31 PM »
we all remember the low budget crappy movie on youtube that was targeting and insulting Muhammed. and we, for sure recall the consequences for that action...Globally.
Now, why Islam has zero tolerance toward crossing the red lines?
I will go a head and assume that islam is probably the only well known and global religion that absolutely don't tolerate criticism...It is like an unconditional love. there is always or at least most of the times a tendency for violence and agitation.

Literacy and poetry were so important among Arab before Islam that people who were good at it were actually very respected and wealthy..they were pleasing kings and amusing the public..the art of using the language was a fundamental part of their heritage. without it, you wouldn't be able to describe Arab!
 
So that was briefly the environment in which Mohammed started his campaign for Islam....
Of course Qura'an is the main script and if you didn't know about this, Qura'an is written with top notch art of language technique..it literally appealed to people..

I'm a former Muslim and I read qura'an in original Arabic...when you translate qura'an to another language it loses it is power and influence comparing to the original Arabic in which the expression is almighty and everything is ten times magnified whether it is threatening or promising, also the way qura'an is usually been read with loud voice and some musical tone in it to produce an outcome of majestic opera like presentation.

To make it simple. It is like the difference between William Shakespeare and will-iam.

My point is..Muslims has been fed the majestic words of Qura'an with voices full of threat sometimes and promise heaven some other times..
Allah, Mohammed and Qura'an are the three re lines you don't want to cross. it is embedded in people's mind, it is representing everything...it is non-questionable...they will get violent. At least verbally.

Uneducated crowd will do anything they ill be told by the Mulla...so no surprises.


I am curious, if you could, give me an example of where the original Arabic version is more powerful than, say, an English version?

It might also be a teaching within Islam that creates less tolerance for criticism than Christianity. I have seen Christians intolerant of criticism, while others value it. It's hard to say that every islamic person acts in X way unless if you can support it.

Offline SGOS

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2014, 02:00:27 AM »

I am curious, if you could, give me an example of where the original Arabic version is more powerful than, say, an English version?

I've heard that before, and I think it's bullshit.  Facts is facts. Evidence is evidence.  No fact or evidence is going to be more powerful if given in a different language.  About the only thing that might be said in defense of this is that a specific language may make some specific poetic attempt seem more powerful, while it would add nothing to another bit of poetic stream originating in a different language.  Poetry depends on some unfathomable quality of language (defined specifically as poetry) to add power to whatever the fuck it is that poetry does.  But you don't formulate arguments in poetry.  You don't defend a serial killer in court using poetry, because poetry is a crappy way to truth. 

Poetry might lead to inspiration, but inspiration is not knowledge:  "Yeah, but I was so moved by that poetry that it brought  tears to my eyes and made me want to be a better person."   Well La Dee fucking Dah; Good for you.

It's possible that Arabic is a more poetic language, but I rather doubt it, and if it is, it hardly gives Arabs a leg up in reasoning.  Language may allow us to communicate, but it also creates traps of logical fallacy through language traps like equivocation.  It's one of man's greatest advantages, and one of his greatest downfalls.  It's a two edged sword.

When you want to manipulate, bamboozle, or con someone into believing nonsense, you use language to blind them.  It can be used for nefarious purposes.  So when someone says a thing is more powerful when said in Arabic, I don't know or care what that means.  Facts is facts.  Evidence is evidence.  And I'm not impressed with fancy pants rhetoric that makes it sound better in a different language.

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2014, 06:49:24 AM »
When you do the critic, you will see the bugs. And you will stay aganist the Islam. And if you know the bugs, they cant order you. "Das Kapital"s dont want that people if they dont pray the goverment. In these years you cant know if people are religious. Only you can know, they want more money or they want to become a slave live like a moron; eat, work, sleep. Its not about the religion guys. Arabia are muslims. And why didnt they help Gaza? Because money talks.
And I read qura'an in Arabic, still it has no mercy for the others. The selfish and egoistic religion ever.
Mohammed was a big revolutionist in those years. He changed many people, congratz him. He fooled many of them. But like all ex religions, this religion will become a myth. And poor me, i will not see those years.


It's simple, dont give meanings their acts.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 06:51:52 AM by eylul »

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2014, 09:41:23 AM »
Zero tolerance seems like a low estimate of the degree of tolerance. If it was zero, wouldn't a billion Muslims have rioted over that movie instead of just a thousand or so?
Atheists are not anti-Christian. They are anti-stupid.--WitchSabrina

Offline SGOS

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2014, 10:06:37 AM »
Zero tolerance seems like a low estimate of the degree of tolerance. If it was zero, wouldn't a billion Muslims have rioted over that movie instead of just a thousand or so?
I think zero tolerance was just an expression for "insulted easily" or maybe "insulted easier than even Christians."