Author Topic: why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?  (Read 5267 times)

Offline no-excuses (OP)

why Islam has zero tolerance for criticism?
« on: March 29, 2014, 08:51:52 PM »
we all remember the low budget crappy movie on youtube that was targeting and insulting Muhammed. and we, for sure recall the consequences for that action...Globally.
Now, why Islam has zero tolerance toward crossing the red lines?
I will go a head and assume that islam is probably the only well known and global religion that absolutely don't tolerate criticism...It is like an unconditional love. there is always or at least most of the times a tendency for violence and agitation.

Literacy and poetry were so important among Arab before Islam that people who were good at it were actually very respected and wealthy..they were pleasing kings and amusing the public..the art of using the language was a fundamental part of their heritage. without it, you wouldn't be able to describe Arab!
 
So that was briefly the environment in which Mohammed started his campaign for Islam....
Of course Qura'an is the main script and if you didn't know about this, Qura'an is written with top notch art of language technique..it literally appealed to people..

I'm a former Muslim and I read qura'an in original Arabic...when you translate qura'an to another language it loses it is power and influence comparing to the original Arabic in which the expression is almighty and everything is ten times magnified whether it is threatening or promising, also the way qura'an is usually been read with loud voice and some musical tone in it to produce an outcome of majestic opera like presentation.

To make it simple. It is like the difference between William Shakespeare and will-iam.

My point is..Muslims has been fed the majestic words of Qura'an with voices full of threat sometimes and promise heaven some other times..
Allah, Mohammed and Qura'an are the three re lines you don't want to cross. it is embedded in people's mind, it is representing everything...it is non-questionable...they will get violent. At least verbally.

Uneducated crowd will do anything they ill be told by the Mulla...so no surprises.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 10:54:48 AM by no-excuses »

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2014, 09:34:42 PM »
I know what you mean.  I cannot read Arabic, but I have read a book about the styles and themes of the Quran, and it truly is extraordinary in its power to describe and the intensity and power behind it, not to mention the utter beauty of it.

The reason why I think Islam has a difficult time tolerating criticism of it is because of its absolute and adamantine doctrines.  The more absolute the claims of a religion are, the more vulnerable it is to criticism, because it has to defend those absolutist claims on a weak basis.  It is known according to mainstream Islamic tradition, for instance, that Muhammad proposed to a six year old girl when he was in his early fifties and he had sexual intercourse with her (Aisha) when she was nine years old.  And mainstream orthodox Muslims know that, but at the same time they have very strong emotional attachments to the prophet Muhammad, so of course once this fact for instance is brought to light their insecurities are going to manifest themselves in the form of rage and even violence.

Back to the first point of my response, there are certain problems with automatically considering the Quran divine because of its extraordinary linguistic qualities.  One is the presence of unscientific verses in the Quran, such as the embryological verses for instance.  Another problem is the moral flaws present in many Quranic verses, such as the verses which can bring about a proclivity of anti-Semitism in the Muslim, etc.  Another verse noted for its moral flaw is the verse condoning marriages to pre-pubescent females.

I, and I am saying this as an ex-Muslim myself, believe that the Quran needs to be placed in its proper historical context in order for it to be studied and thus critically analyzed.  Once we do that, we can penetrate the secrets of this powerful book, and unlock its very heart.

Offline no-excuses (OP)

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2014, 09:55:00 PM »
Qura'an does has linguistic qualities..but that doesn't make Qura'an unique because back then literacy was nourished and trending excessively. So coming up with a book like qura'an was challenging but still not as miraculous as nowadays muslim claim. 

I agree with you when it comes to the fact that certain insecurities are responsible for the outrage in many instances. But those insecurities were not targeted in the two infamous incidents were Mohammed (not Qura'an) were insulted, The Danemark incident and the youtube video.
 
 

Offline StupidWiz

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 10:17:35 PM »
The reason why I think Islam has a difficult time tolerating criticism of it is because of its absolute and adamantine doctrines.  The more absolute the claims of a religion are, the more vulnerable it is to criticism, because it has to defend those absolutist claims on a weak basis. 
Agreed, ironically this is what makes Islam more resilient than other religions. If you cannot mock it, question it or criticize it, you can't break the dogma, you can't make simple-minded people at least doubt. Only through disasters caused by so called extremists, the ugly face of Islam can sometimes be gazed upon. The da'wah always preach Islam as the religion of peace, and for the people who don't know and understand Islam better, they will just believe it, thus makes it easy for Islam to be accepted anywhere. Another irony is the only one who's being loud at criticising Islam is the other religion that has their own agenda, while atheists or ex-muslims who try to criticize it are labelled as racists and or "Islamophobes". it's a shame really.

Still remember the director that was killed because his movie insulted Islam's way of treating women? or Indonesian man who's jailed just after he's beaten up by the mobs who didn't like his FB status saying "God doesn't exist"? That's the true face of Islam. I wish outsiders could really see it and understand it so that the religion of peace nonsense can be easily rebutted.
... To teach superstitions as truths is the most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can they be in after years relieved of them. - Hypatia

Offline no-excuses (OP)

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2014, 10:32:09 PM »
If you cannot mock it, question it or criticize it, you can't break the dogma, you can't make simple-minded people at least doubt.
 
That is the point...you can't really access people and simply talk to them.
Islam is the religion of peace....only if you obey it.

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2014, 06:22:16 AM »
I think much of the problem lies in the link between church and state.  Islam certainly has its share of wingnuts residing in other countries too, but when any nonconformity is threatened with state violence, it is going to have the effect of fomenting sheep-like adherence.  Like someone alluded to above, the Qur'an is a book written by a seventh century Arab man, and needs to at least be interpreted in the context of the 21st century if it is to move with the times.  Unfortunately, many of the countries where islam is practised insulate their population from a decent education, one which would encourage people to question the bullshit.  Education is a key issue with this problem. And as long as the bloated absolute monarchies, tin-pot dictators etc. in some of these countries continue to be propped up by western governments, then radical islam is likely to continue to be a problem, and the blame is not solely on the inhabitants of these countries - it doesn't exist in isolation, but also in the context of resource issues, arms deals and dynastic squabbles.

The people need to be given the same opportunities that we've had over the last couple of hundred years.  They aren't going to get it with an iron-age religious world view....

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2014, 09:14:56 PM »
One of the primary results of this inability to concede anything is that it keeps Muslims in check. Submit and never question this all-encompassing way of life. No mercy, no heaven, none of that will be realistic otherwise.

Another result is that the non-Muslim populations who inhabit the same area and are vulnerable to potential retribution are also held in check.

This is useful because it seems to compliment the long term agenda of Islam quite well for both Muslim and non-Muslim populations.

Allah reminds me a lot of how that other god used to act now that I think about it.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 09:17:28 PM by Cocoa Beware »

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2014, 09:59:15 PM »
I would say this holy book suffers from the same fatal flaw of all other holy books: it doesn't stand up to criticism, therefore it does not tolerate it.

Offline SGOS

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2014, 07:38:41 AM »
Islam is like Christianity.  The same dynamics are at play, but it's more intense.  Take everything about Christianity and magnify it; The anger, hate, violence, victim status, intolerance, and blatant unquestioning stupidity are all exaggerated.  Religions are dangerous, and Islam is currently the most violent of today's religions.  We tend to make excuses for moderate Muslims, but Islam's violent factions are a growing threat, and powerful enough to take over Mosul.  This is no small undertaking, and people should stop talking about the religion of peace as if it presents no threat.

Offline frosty

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2014, 01:47:01 PM »
Islam is like Christianity.  The same dynamics are at play, but it's more intense.  Take everything about Christianity and magnify it; The anger, hate, violence, victim status, intolerance, and blatant unquestioning stupidity are all exaggerated.  Religions are dangerous, and Islam is currently the most violent of today's religions.  We tend to make excuses for moderate Muslims, but Islam's violent factions are a growing threat, and powerful enough to take over Mosul.  This is no small undertaking, and people should stop talking about the religion of peace as if it presents no threat.

They've taken over a lot more than Mosul. I follow the developments in a very sparse and patchy way, but all across the globe they've taken over waaaaaay more than just Mosul. And even in the areas they don't control they do raids. These violent factions are powerful, bold, and if you want you can look at their stuff on Twitter like I do.

Offline SGOS

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2014, 03:59:01 PM »
https://news.yahoo.com/turkey-says-militants-hold-80-turks-hostage-iraqs-164140882.html
For some reason there are no international news on this...
NBC had something on the net about the fall of Mosul, but it was rather brief, and nothing about hostages so far.  At least that I've seen.  I would expect something this major in Iraq to dominate the news, but it's being overshadowed by what starlet wore the wrong dress at some gathering or other.

Offline DunkleSeele

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2014, 02:39:42 AM »
https://news.yahoo.com/turkey-says-militants-hold-80-turks-hostage-iraqs-164140882.html

For some reason there are no international news on this...
I've heard about it this morning on the radio.

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2014, 07:37:44 AM »
The more people make this argument against Islam, the more people miss the bigger picture of human behavior in terms of evolutionary psychology. Islam's current state is a matter of geography and time, not label. It was not that long ago that Christianity was as barbaric as Islam is in far too much of the east today. The only thing that makes Christianity MORE civil in the west is 200 years of secular law keeping it on a leash. Even with that there still are constant attempts to mix government and religion.

In terms of evolution OUR SPECIES does the same thing. We seek groups of like minded people to create safety in numbers. We sell superstitious patterns we call religion to maintain those groups. When we feel a threat to that pattern, we seek to protect that pattern. Fear of change and fear of the unknown are what cause our species to react natively to challenges to our social norms. Dawkins in his famous book "The God Delusion" describes this evolutionary behavior in an example of an alpha male bird in a flock reacting violently, even if the subordinate bird is offering a branch to help the alpha male build a nest.

Yes Islam is collectively far too stuck in the past in our modern world. I agree. But all religions produce this behavior for the same reason. The west simply has had more time to minimize the harm done by theocracy by demanding common law.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers." Obama
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Offline SGOS

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2014, 07:41:25 AM »
It won't be the first time that we've heard about something like this first on an international forum.  I've actually seen lag times of a month after something is first reported on a forum.  Finally, the media hears about it.

Offline frosty

Re: why Islam has zero tolerance of criticism?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2014, 02:27:36 PM »
It won't be the first time that we've heard about something like this first on an international forum.  I've actually seen lag times of a month after something is first reported on a forum.  Finally, the media hears about it.

Perhaps "lag" is actually the key word to describe it. The information is first reported on a so called obscure medium, then the mainstream media picks it up after it garners enough attention.