A letter from a theist friend of mine.

[Solitary]

"Regarding the attachment. People will tell us God doesn't make mistakes. Was there a purpose in having the children born this way? I don't know and either does the person that is trying to make a point about someone's beliefs. To use the picture of these babies to make that point about God is beyond words for me. At the very least that person should be ashamed. To use them in any way is disgusting. They are human beings and deserve our respect and care. When David was born I can remember you and Donna doing your best to help him in any way you could. As hard as the work was do you wish you would have given it all up?

Don't you look at him now with pride in what he's accomplished? Was David being born the way he was a mistake? Not to me. We all have limitations. Some physical and some mental. Not one of us is perfect in every way. I truly love you like a brother and ask you not to send me photos like this attachment that uses children to make a point about God. There are other ways to prove a point and children like these don't have to be part of any argument. I'm not bothered by the fact that they were born the way they were but how their condition is being exploited."

Solitary says: That last line says it all doesn't it?  As long as God did it they are not bothered by that, but are bothered about pointing it out to them. The blind leading the blind, blinded by the glory of God, from reality. .I should be ashamed, while God shouldn't be, that they think created monsters for some plan. This is what really pisses me off with theists, they walk through life with rose colored glasses and blinders on.

Comments! Solitary

[Plu]

It would help if you put a quote around the part they sent you. That said, yeah it's easy to discard arguments based on hitting too close to home.

It's nice how you can't use children to support your argument, even though most theist arguments are themselves aimed at children.

[Shol'va]

A very good friend of mine when he came over to visit me (he now lives in a different state), looked at my cute sleeping son and asked "how can people look at something like this and not believe in god?"
It was not a jab at me because he doesn't know I am atheist, and it took me all the restraint to not mutter "because you have to account for bone cancer in children"

So this reminds me of the "God works in mysterious ways" knee-jerk response to any and all calamities, atrocities, and bad things that happen that are not prevented by god. It is the utterance that the believer spews before his brain even has a chance to do some critical thinking.

So my question is ... what is the threshold? I mean, how smart or complex or how much wisdom would Hitler have needed, in order for us to say "yep, he killed all those people but Hitler just works in mysterious ways".
God has a plan? So did Hitler!

How smart must I be and how much wisdom must I gather up before I am beyond reproach for certain bad things?
And that's the point. "God works in mysterious ways" is neither an explanation, nor an excuse for the problem of abject suffering upon millions of innocents.

[Poison Tree]

"God works in mysterious ways"
"but no so mysterious that we can't tell you how he feels about gays and abortion and condoms and gun control and . . ."

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Mystery god can't even tell us about tooth decay much less anything regarding babies born with birth defects..

[SGOS]

"God works in mysterious ways" is neither an explanation, nor an excuse for the problem of abject suffering upon millions of innocents.

Amen!

[charde]

I reached the conclusion some years back that the only response to suffering is to engage when that is possible. There is no explanation (nothing rational, and nothing that is emotionally satisfying); all we can do is be present with those who are hurting.

Religious people trying to rationalize and even justify suffering is probably on my top ten hit list of "Things That Boileth My Cup Over."

[AT7iLA]

Christians forget that Jesus went through a lot of suffering also. He isn't just some god that is protected from all the suffering that we have to go through because He went through them himself and was even killed. Even all of His loved ones, His disciples were also killed. Steven was stoned to death. John the baptist was beheaded. Peter was crucified by the Romans upside down. John was exiled.

They were all willing to go through it because they knew that life in this world was temporary. The truest followers of Christ know that life here isn't perfect. Yes there are children suffering. Sure God is aware of that most likely. But most of us don't take into account that there is also a fallen angel causing these things...

I mean if we really wanna talk about God then we can't forget the enemy... Most of us look at deceases and say "God did this" but forget that if we talk about "God" there is also an adversary laughing because he loves the fact that we blame God for the things that we should be blaming on satan...

Reminds me of the whole Bush vs Osama thing... Bush got away with blowing up the towers because he blamed Osama when he had nothing to do with it... smh. Oh well.

[Feral Atheist]

"God works in mysterious ways"
"but no so mysterious that we can't tell you how he feels about gays and abortion and condoms and gun control and . . ."

Gun control?  When did god weigh in on that?

I'm a gun owner, I carry a gun most of the time, and according to many on gun forums I frequent, owning and carrying a gun is a 'god given right'.  I don't buy that, but it is a right guaranteed in the Constitution, and I carry for self-defense.

[Poison Tree]

Gun control?  When did god weigh in on that?

I'm a gun owner, I carry a gun most of the time, and according to many on gun forums I frequent, owning and carrying a gun is a 'god given right'.  I don't buy that, but it is a right guaranteed in the Constitution, and I carry for self-defense.

If carrying a gun is a 'god given right' then god apparently weigh in on (and against) gun control--I've heard people say god settled against gun control when he guided the founding fathers (all bible believing Christians, don't you know) to wright the second amendment. Or maybe he was for it when he/Jesus said "whoever lives by the sword dies by the sword". I've heard god invoked by both sides.

[charde]

Christians forget that Jesus went through a lot of suffering also. He isn't just some god that is protected from all the suffering that we have to go through because He went through them himself and was even killed.

I'm at a point in life where I can't say for certain what things are true... religious faith included.

However, one of the things I brought away from Christianity is that I believe being present with others in suffering can make some kind of difference. I can't make the pain go away, I can't solve people's problems for them, I can't fix the evils of the world, I can't make them happy or satisfied; but I can make sure that others are not alone when they are suffering, I can be present with them.

God is suppose to be the creator of all things, and all powerful. If this is so, he could have made a perfect world without sin or the devil. This reminds me of blaming Obama for what Bush did. Solitary

Sure, s/he /  it could have done that.

I'm not sure how "choice" plays into the matter, though. If you have the ability to choose, then some choices are going to be worse than others. A world without choice is like a world where we're all just puppets.

(Then again, some people would say that a sovereign deity in existence would make us all puppets regardless. *shrug*)

[Feral Atheist]

Christians forget that Jesus went through a lot of suffering also.

Where christians fail is that they forget that Jesus is just a fictional character in a story book fairy tale.