Author Topic: Is Objectivism a Religion?  (Read 15172 times)

(No subject)
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2013, 02:59:06 AM »
Ayn Rand.... -sigh- Her works are indeed torture to slog through. Just beats out the Twilight series.
Which means that to me the offer of certainty, the offer of complete security, the offer of an impermeable faith that can\'t give way, is the offer of something not worth having.
[...]
Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty & wisdom, will come to you that way.
-Christopher Hitchens

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« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2013, 03:12:44 AM »
As far as I'm concerned, it's not a religion unless it involves belief in some kind of supernatural being.

May not be the strict definition but I think things like Buddhism and other non-deity "religions" should be considered philosophy.

(No subject)
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2013, 04:04:09 AM »
Well, some strains of Buddhism include belief in deities/supernatural beings.
Which means that to me the offer of certainty, the offer of complete security, the offer of an impermeable faith that can\'t give way, is the offer of something not worth having.
[...]
Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty & wisdom, will come to you that way.
-Christopher Hitchens

(No subject)
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2013, 04:51:32 PM »
Quote
Ayn Rand.... -sigh- Her works are indeed torture to slog through. Just beats out the Twilight series.
Actually, the books were pretty good. It's the movies that sucked.
"The idea of getting a, y\'know, syringe full of heroin and shooting it in the vein under my cock right now seems like almost a productive act." -Bill Hicks

Re:
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2013, 09:38:04 PM »
Quote from: "GurrenLagann"
Well, some strains of Buddhism include belief in deities/supernatural beings.

I didn't know that.

Interesting.  :-k

Offline Thumpalumpacus

Re:
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2013, 11:34:14 PM »
Quote from: "Farroc"
Quote
Ayn Rand.... -sigh- Her works are indeed torture to slog through. Just beats out the Twilight series.
Actually, the books were pretty good. It's the movies that sucked.

Golly, you're the first person I've read who thinks her fiction was any good.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Re: Is Objectivism a Religion?
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2013, 07:21:10 AM »
Quote from: "Hakurei Reimu"
Ironically, there is very little objectivity in Objectivism.


I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

Re: Re:
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2013, 11:02:05 AM »
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Quote from: "Farroc"
Quote
Ayn Rand.... -sigh- Her works are indeed torture to slog through. Just beats out the Twilight series.
Actually, the books were pretty good. It's the movies that sucked.

Golly, you're the first person I've read who thinks her fiction was any good.

People who like her books don't appear to be vanishingly rare:

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Atheists are not anti-Christian. They are anti-stupid.--WitchSabrina

Offline bennyboy

Re:
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2013, 06:00:47 PM »
Quote from: "Zatoichi"
As far as I'm concerned, it's not a religion unless it involves belief in some kind of supernatural being.

May not be the strict definition but I think things like Buddhism and other non-deity "religions" should be considered philosophy.
I think belieft that any mythology represents a reality, and that it represents a way to improve one's interactions with the rest of reality, are enough to establish a system of thought as a religion.

Certainly, an "objectivist" is ascribing to the myth of the isolated self, set above the work and contributions of others in the society.  This person believes that "accepting" this vision of the great-self will allow one to prosper.

The less flattering reality is that these people are cheaters: they depend on all the efforts of normal Joes in society, and give little back to them.  They are parasites.  Yes, a grand vision can lead to amazing changes in the world-- but the mechanism of that change is as much sweat as ingenuity: no genius ever build a grand building purely with his own hand, and tools of his own invention.
Insanity is the only sensible response to the universe.  The sane are just making stuff up.

Re: Re:
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2013, 12:16:01 AM »
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Quote from: "Farroc"
Actually, the books were pretty good. It's the movies that sucked.

Golly, you're the first person I've read who thinks her fiction was any good.

People who like her books don't appear to be vanishingly rare:

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Selection bias.  Her books are not likely to be popular in places like this, but that doesn't mean they aren't likely to be popular.

I liked the books, and the movies, and the non-fiction.  I don't agree 100%, which means I'm as irrational as any of you from her point of view, but I enjoy it.
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Offline Thumpalumpacus

Re: Is Objectivism a Religion?
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2013, 12:34:47 AM »
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"
But on the other hand Ayn Rand and most of the other philosophers with arbitrary rules and concepts set out for human, started from where they already stood. And filled in the blanks sitting on that comfortable point. They had a goal, not a search. pretty much what academic discourse forced them to do. They created concepts, when nothing adds up, re-wrote and re-wrote and re-wrote... But unfortunately reality is not something to resist. :lol: It's impossible. You can only catch up with it...if you can. And if you attempt to do that with filling in the blanks, eventually anything outside can be defined as 'subjectivism'. And attempting to define an objectivism?! Childish. If that is the 'correct' way to move on, then why don't we define main philosophical systems as 'normative' and get it over with. We can't. Nothing would be left.

I hope my post makes sense to you.

It does, mostly, and thanks for taking the time to compose it.  

I can't really say much about Nietzsche, for the simple reason that I don't know too much about him, and haven't read his works.  

I've quoted this passage in particular, though, because it highlights the primary reason why (although I agree with some of her points, even still) I never fully embraced Rand's philosophy: because at its core, the contradiction between her subjective values, ethics, and morality, and her failure to demonstrate their objectivity, reduced her in my eyes from a philosopher to an ideologue.  Your point here, that her "reasoning" was not a priori but rather ex post cogito, is why I reject Objectivism.

Sorry it took so long to reply to your post -- I didn't realize it was here until tonight.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Offline Thumpalumpacus

Re: Re:
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2013, 12:36:12 AM »
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"
People who like her books don't appear to be vanishingly rare:

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I guess I don't run in those circles.

I wonder how many books Rush sold for her?  :)
<insert witty aphorism here>

Re: Re:
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2013, 01:04:11 PM »
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"
People who like her books don't appear to be vanishingly rare:

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I guess I don't run in those circles.

I wonder how many books Rush sold for her?  :)

Their music is rather good, I think they sold quite a bit for her.
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Offline Thumpalumpacus

Re: Re:
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2013, 01:56:41 PM »
Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"
People who like her books don't appear to be vanishingly rare:

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I guess I don't run in those circles.

I wonder how many books Rush sold for her?  :)

Their music is rather good, I think they sold quite a bit for her.

It was a joke.  Their nod to her in the liner notes of 2112 was how I came to hear of, and eventually read, her works.

I'm a huge fan of theirs.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Offline Paradox

Re: Is Objectivism a Religion?
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2013, 01:45:48 AM »
Quote from: "Bobby_Ouroborus"
Quote from: "Plu"
Can you include a short bit on what it actually is? It might help start the discussion.

It is like a pseudo-Nietzschean philosophy for people who really do not understand Nietzsche and have self-esteem issues. Their beliefs include selifishness is the highest virture. Ayn Rand is always right, Objectivism is the only valid philosophy and it is okay to be rude and indignant at those who dare question Ayn Rand.

Meh, those behaviors are coming from a chunk of people who ascribe to Objectivism to some degree, but they are not indicative of the philosophy itself. I could say similar things about a few tardle atheists I know, but to suggest this makes atheism a religion would be absurd. Some atheists do indeed mystify to some degree atheism itself, or turn it into some sect through their behaviors in society... This makes the way THEY are TREATING atheism akin to a religion, but not atheism itself a religion.

Objectivism is a philosophical school of thought, what people do with it is up to them. Some turn it into their own pseudo-religion, others take it with a grain of salt and use it in a more proper context...

 

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