Author Topic: Do animals "think"  (Read 39321 times)

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2014, 02:48:29 PM »
I don't know about what constitutes dog intelligence, but he seemed incredibly smart to me.  He was a golden retriever, and they have a reputation of wanting to please.  He was good at pleasing too.  I loved him dearly.
I know what you mean. I am an animal lover to the point that others think I'm a sucker for all living things. I'd rather trap a spider and release it outside than squash it.

I grew up with animals. In fact I've always had a companion of some form of another. I presently have a hermit crab "safe heaven" and I used to always be on the lookout on Craigslist etc for people that were giving up theirs, so I would adopt them. They are one of the pets that very vew people truly know how to properly take care of, and as a result they are regarded as being a "throw-away" pet that only lives a year or two. They usually end up dying a slow agonizing death at the hands of uneducated owners.

But I digress. I've seen the same sort of intelligence you mention in the dogs I've owned. We currently have a westie that is one of the sharpest pets I've ever had.

An interesting thing to note. There's studies that show that people that have grown up with pets tend to be more gentle and compassionate overall. I'm going to buy my son twenty puppies when the time comes.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 02:50:59 PM by Shol'va »

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2014, 03:27:32 PM »
Hey everyone,  Marty aka APA is taking a nap so I'd like to introduce myself. I'm the mouse who lives next door behind Bruce's refrigerator and in case you're wondering yes, indeed we do think. In fact, my cousin Jake invented the internet you're reading this with this very minute. He was forced to give credit to Al Gore.
How do I type this? Well,  it's not easy, but Marty's tablet has a touch screen so it's a lot easier to use than that big, clunky keyboard over at Bruce's place. MAN! I have to climb up to the ceiling and jump down over there just to click the space bar!
So anyway,  that's me in the picture.
OH CRAP! He's waking up..gotta go. Enjoy my handsome mug!
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2014, 03:30:38 PM »
I had the strangest dream some mouse was using my tablet.. :think:
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline SGOS

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2014, 03:49:36 PM »
Hey everyone,  Marty aka APA is taking a nap so I'd like to introduce myself. I'm the mouse who lives next door behind Bruce's refrigerator and in case you're wondering yes, indeed we do think. In fact, my cousin Jake invented the internet you're reading this with this very minute. He was forced to give credit to Al Gore.
How do I type this? Well,  it's not easy, but Marty's tablet has a touch screen so it's a lot easier to use than that big, clunky keyboard over at Bruce's place. MAN! I have to climb up to the ceiling and jump down over there just to click the space bar!
So anyway,  that's me in the picture.
OH CRAP! He's waking up..gotta go. Enjoy my handsome mug!

Yeah, but that other computer uses a mouse.  I would think that would make it pretty easy for you.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2014, 03:56:31 PM »
Hmm..that wasn't a dream after all. In the immortal words of W C Fields,  One of these days I'm gonna buy myself a mousetrap.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline aitm

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2014, 04:04:42 PM »
Not too long ago, I watched a PBS doc on how certain plants can distinguish the predactors that attack it. As a defense, it can send a gas that will attract the predators of its predators. Some trees know their relatives: they will protect and nourish them against other plants. At the end of the program, one of the researchers stated that if plants do think, how do they do it without a brain and a nervous system? Stay tuned.
I have met many many humans with a brain and nervous system that can't think....
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2014, 04:13:07 PM »
I have met many many humans with a brain and nervous system that can't think....

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
 
-- Robert A. Heinlein


Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2014, 04:35:29 PM »
Just tune into CNN. You'll see human potential just go down hill second by second.

Personally I think you're all taking the question entirely to seriously.  Now if someone's dog sits down and writes a great work of fiction I'll take it a whole lot more seriously,  but...
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2014, 05:09:20 PM »
The point where I don't think I can agree with is over objectivity. Objectivity is not a scale. You're either being objective or not, and this is especially so in science. The question in science is are you looking at data or are you judging emotion and unsubstantiated theories, which is not science. Science gets more precise as time goes on. It goes from guesswork to working bodies of knowledge. I'm not looking for reasons to argue, in fact I'm looking for common ground and I'm hoping that you can see that as well. The issue of consciousness is not "fucked up" as is a complex issue that we thus far are struggling to grasp and understand and properly frame it.

Either way I think the whole thing is a red herring to the fact that we should be kind to animals, regardless of their level of intelligence or lack thereof. And I think we've answered the question that OP answered ;)
And people that need justification for compassion, I would argue, lack a certain capacity to think that other animals have in abundance. Although, I suppose there are some animals that kill just for the fuck of it, such as the panther.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 05:11:55 PM by Shol'va »

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2014, 05:19:50 PM »
I am taking it seriously, because it's an amazing subject. See, I am even talking to Shol'va.  :lol:
Yeah, that Shol'va stuff just blows me away! We need an investigation into why you're talking to him. :think:
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2014, 05:23:44 PM »
See, I am even talking to Shol'va.  :lol:
Oh, come on now :lol:

Quote
I am taking it seriously, because it's an amazing subject.
I couldn't agree more. Don't get me wrong, I love my career now, but there are times when I think that I missed my calling in life as a marine biologist. Or a lawyer :lol:
Even something as simple as a beta fish managed to surprise me with just how much awareness and apparent intelligence it can show. I had several over the years and they actually learned to recognize me. I also had a colony of fiddler crabs and I had a female specimen that would actually eat out of the palm of my hand. She outlived the average lifespan considered for both in captivity and in the wild. I have a ton of pics and videos but won't bore anyone unsolicited :lol:
I had ghost shrimp that managed to breed in one of my fish tanks, something that is typically unheard of in the aquarium hobby (they need very specific parameters).
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 05:27:05 PM by Shol'va »

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2014, 05:49:11 PM »
I have no doubt animals do think and feel. I remember my dog not leaving my side once when I was suicidally depressed years ago and he typically just laid around doing dog stuff, but that day he didn't take his eyes off me. I'm convinced he could sense my depression,  but didn't have the abilty to do much except lay his head on my lap and keep looking sadder than me.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #72 on: March 27, 2014, 05:59:31 PM »
I have no doubt animals do think and feel. I remember my dog not leaving my side once when I was suicidally depressed years ago and he typically just laid around doing dog stuff, but that day he didn't take his eyes off me. I'm convinced he could sense my depression,  but didn't have the abilty to do much except lay his head on my lap and keep looking sadder than me.
Well, I think that if I happened to be there, with some bacon ...


Dogs are very in tune with people. They are extremely good at interpreting mood depending on body language and behavior. It is scary how good they are sometimes.

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #73 on: March 27, 2014, 06:10:38 PM »
I tend to lose my cool over the mistreatment of animals, especially at the hands of those that think of them as "lesser".

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2016, 05:47:14 PM »
Growing up, we raised dogs.  Popcorn was a favorite family treat at night watching movies.  4 dogs sitting in a line being handed one piece of popcorn down the line, repeated at dads whim; meaning there was a time delay between rounds.  DeeDee was at the head of the line and alpha female.  Two of her pups next, male Trep, who would become alpha later, his sister Squeek, then Bear an outsider brought into the home for breeding purposes.  After about 10 mins or so, D got a weird look on her face and slowly got up and walked to the end of the line after getting a piece of popcorn.  So she got another.  Stayed there for one round, got that weird look again and headed for the front of the line.  She repeated this like 5 times, not always in a row, but consistent enough to indicate she had figured out she could get extra.  The 2nd or 3rd time, squeek got bouncy and you could tell she knew something wasnt quite right, but she couldn't quite figure it out.  Trep just got irritated at the moving around by his mom and bear happily sat at the end, not caring about anything.  It was one of the coolest things I ever seen and the only time I think I saw an animal do math without being trained.

As a side note, we had a lot of dogs, always 4 adults minimum in the house and a litter of pups. There was a routine in effect when it came to feeding the dogs.  Everyone had a schedule, their own bowl and their own place to eat to ensure diets were complete and nobody got left out.  Point being DeeDee had no experience with taking another dogs food, so it wasnt something she had learned to take advantage of as alpha.