Author Topic: Do animals "think"  (Read 9932 times)

Offline josephpalazzo

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2014, 07:04:18 PM »
Depends. I know mice only think about food, because they run into my mouse traps all the time and can't seem to plan accordingly.

How could a mouse plan if once it's trapped, it's killed? :wink: You need to release it and see if the same mouse comes back, then you will be able to tell if it has learned anything and can plan otherwise.

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2014, 08:01:29 PM »
I had once trapped a mouse in a live trap, and then released it in my back yard (dumbass mistake since I did not think about the possibility of the fucker coming back). That mouse did in fact come back, and the cat did not miss him the second time.

Offline aitm

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2014, 09:07:54 PM »
one of my dogs certainly showed a certain knowledge of wind patterns today. With a strong wind from the south west and a person walking towards us  from the west, the dog purposefully moved got up and moved about 15 yards to the north east to intercept the wind and smell the person. At first I thought it was a reaction to the movement but she came back after catching the wind and appeared not much interested after that. I was rather captivated by it.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2014, 09:20:10 PM »
By "specialized", I mean adapted to fit a particular biological niche. Take a dolphin as an example of a very specialized species. You can't take a dolphin out of the water and expect it to live very long. Humans can live in a really wide range of environments and adapt to a very wide range of conditions. Exceptionally so for members of the animal kingdom.

Don't forget our great ability to run for several hours without stopping. Endurance is one of our greatest traits that few other animals can compete with.

Offline aitm

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2014, 09:45:23 PM »
I am not so sure that dolphins existing out of water is such a great example considering the various conditions that they can survive in that we can't. Air v water aside, I am willing to guess humans can't stand a tenth of the pressure that dolphins can. And I am not so willing to grant that humans have such a great capacity for long distance running compared to other animals. Humans have a greater intellect, no doubt, and certainly a greater dexterity of some digits, and even a better memory, so I think all in all, it is a combination of average things that we have in a greater than average that makes us more adaptable and thus more "successful".
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2014, 09:52:17 PM »
one of my dogs certainly showed a certain knowledge of wind patterns today. With a strong wind from the south west and a person walking towards us  from the west, the dog purposefully moved got up and moved about 15 yards to the north east to intercept the wind and smell the person. At first I thought it was a reaction to the movement but she came back after catching the wind and appeared not much interested after that. I was rather captivated by it.
I am not so sure that is a good example of "thinking", or intelligence as much as it is instinct.
See, that's the trouble with this thread, I don't think we have nailed by what definitions and what terms we are discussing.

Offline josephpalazzo

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2014, 04:53:48 AM »
I had once trapped a mouse in a live trap, and then released it in my back yard (dumbass mistake since I did not think about the possibility of the fucker coming back). That mouse did in fact come back, and the cat did not miss him the second time.
Dumd mouse. :biggrin:


I am not so sure that is a good example of "thinking", or intelligence as much as it is instinct.
See, that's the trouble with this thread, I don't think we have nailed by what definitions and what terms we are discussing.

Just like any other concept, "think" might mean different things to different people. An online definition of the word "thinK" has 28 versions:


Quote
think


verb (used without object), thought, think·ing.
1.
to have a conscious mind, to some extent of reasoning, remembering experiences, making rational decisions, etc.

2.
to employ one's mind rationally and objectively in evaluating or dealing with a given situation: Think carefully before you begin.

3.
to have a certain thing as the subject of one's thoughts: I was thinking about you. We could think of nothing else.

4.
to call something to one's conscious mind: I couldn't think of his phone number.

5.
to consider something as a possible action, choice, etc.: She thought about cutting her hair.


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verb (used with object), thought, think·ing.

11.
to have or form in the mind as an idea, conception, etc.

12.
to have or form in the mind in order to understand, know, or remember something else: Romantic comedy is all about chemistry: think Tracy and Hepburn. Can't guess? Here's a hint: think 19th century.

13.
to consider for evaluation or for possible action upon: Think the deal over.

14.
to regard as specified: He thought me unkind.

15.
to believe to be true of someone or something: to think evil of the neighbors.


adjective
19.
of or pertaining to thinking or thought.

20.
Informal. stimulating or challenging to the intellect or mind: the think book of the year.  Compare think piece.

noun
21.
Informal. the act or a period of thinking: I want to sit down and give it a good think.
Verb phrases
22.
think of,
a.
to conceive of; imagine.

b.
to have an opinion or judgment of.

c.
to consider; anticipate: When one thinks of what the future may bring, one is both worried and hopeful.

23.
think out / through,
a.
to think about until a conclusion is reached; understand or solve by thinking.

b.
to devise by thinking; contrive: He thought out a plan for saving time.

24.
think up, to devise or contrive by thinking: Can you think up an arrangement of furniture for this room?
Idioms
25.
think better of, to change one's mind about; reconsider: She considered emigrating to Australia, but thought better of it.

26.
think fit, to consider advisable or appropriate: By all means, take a vacation if you think fit.

27.
think nothing of. nothing (  def 19 ) .

28.
think twice, to weigh carefully before acting; consider: I would think twice before taking on such a responsibility.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/think

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2014, 07:16:50 AM »
I am not so sure that dolphins existing out of water is such a great example considering the various conditions that they can survive in that we can't. Air v water aside, I am willing to guess humans can't stand a tenth of the pressure that dolphins can. And I am not so willing to grant that humans have such a great capacity for long distance running compared to other animals. Humans have a greater intellect, no doubt, and certainly a greater dexterity of some digits, and even a better memory, so I think all in all, it is a combination of average things that we have in a greater than average that makes us more adaptable and thus more "successful".

You have to go back around 50,000 years to see the benefit. Most animals expend their energy in short bursts and have to rest, we can run after our prey until its too tired to run and go in for the easy kill. Civilization made us lazy.

Offline Atheon

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2014, 07:33:03 AM »
When I was a teenager, we had a dog who was very good at figuring out ways to escape our yard, which was surrounded by fences. Whenever we came up with a new method of locking the gate, she would find a way to open it, going to quite complex lengths that would have required some form of reasoning to figure out.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Offline aitm

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2014, 09:35:22 PM »
I am not so sure that is a good example of "thinking", or intelligence as much as it is instinct.
See, that's the trouble with this thread, I don't think we have nailed by what definitions and what terms we are discussing.

Good point about the defintions, because I disagree with your position about it being instinct. I think it is very much intelligence, my other dog didn't do it.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline aitm

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2014, 09:36:56 PM »
You have to go back around 50,000 years to see the benefit. Most animals expend their energy in short bursts and have to rest, we can run after our prey until its too tired to run and go in for the easy kill. Civilization made us lazy.

well, I have never heard of humans being able to outrun and outlast our prey. Perhaps you have something I can refer to, it would be very interesting.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline the concerned atheist

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2014, 11:12:04 PM »
animals do think and and have personality case in point humans

Offline Plu

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2014, 03:23:59 AM »
well, I have never heard of humans being able to outrun and outlast our prey. Perhaps you have something I can refer to, it would be very interesting.

I want to believe this because it sounds awesome, but googling for it or the term "pursuit predation" yields suspiciously few results.

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2014, 07:16:18 AM »
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 07:21:19 AM by Icarus »

Re: Do animals "think"
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2014, 07:18:19 AM »
I want to believe this because it sounds awesome, but googling for it or the term "pursuit predation" yields suspiciously few results.

Too specific a search term, read the links provided. Google "ancient human running" for more results.