I'm Catholic, let me have it!

[Johan]

the same as "theirs" but using "our" love and compassion as the base instead of a magical "wizards" love and compassion. Pretty much semantics, only they are more than willing to kill you for not agreeing with them while you are more than willing to let them be.

That doesn't really explain it for me. Or at least I'm still not understanding the difference. I guess that's because my perception has always been that ones religion, or lack of religion has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not one has morals. To me, anyone who points to their belief in god or their church attendance as the reason they have good morals is either lying or woefully misinformed.

I guess its that whole bit about if you're only moral because god will punish you otherwise, then you're not really moral, you're just well-behaved because dad's watching. Shrug.

[Solomon Zorn]

Does anyone here think that the teachings of the Church and the potential objectivity of atheistic morality will/can converge at some point?

As I would understand you to mean it, I think there is already a great deal of agreement. And on many subjects where there is disagreement between Christian morals, and humanistic morals, the Christians will eventually evolve, given the proper social pressures from within. Because humanistic morals aren't exclusively atheistic any more than atheists are exclusively humanists.

Probably most of my morality is based on what my parents taught me. They were both very humanistic in their values, although my mom was a Christian. I am fortunate to have had a very open-minded upbringing.

I hope that Christians will increasingly focus on the love and forgiveness. Compassion and non-judgmentalism. Peacemaking, healing, and turning the other cheek.

I fear though that they will continue to focus on obedience to scripture, which is divisive at best and oppressive in any case.

There can never be an objective morality. But there is a lot we can agree on. Freedom of religion, including the option to decline any religion, is a good place to start.

[Brian37]

Hello everyone, I am a cradle Catholic who fancies himself an apologist. I am not here because I have been sent by God to convert the heathen masses concentrated here, but because I believe there IS a competent, intellectual way of thinking about/understanding the existence of a deity (especially the Christian one.) All I want to do is see if I can hold my own in an open forum... (I'm a lamb in search of a slaughterhouse.) With that said, what is wrong with Christianity anyway? Is it anti-intellectual? Is it complete nonsense? Is it destructive? Are you indifferent to religion, or do you revile it? P.S. if this is the wrong place to post this, let me be rebuffed quickly, and I will post this elsewhere.   

Good luck, former symbolic cannibal hobbyist myself. Oh and FYI that stick monument in St Peter's with the cross on it, is called an Obelisk. Before the Vatican incorporated it into their decor, it was originally brought from Egypt by tyrant and sicko Caligula to Rome for his own self glorification. Welcome to the shark tank.

[Poison Tree]

well, looks like we ran Vercingetorix off. He wasn't too bad compared to the Christians we get through here. Obtuse and squirmed away from questions--which is practically a prerequisite--but at least he wasn't an outright troll.