Why Do Organisms tend to exist?

Started by FractalEternalWheel, March 22, 2014, 03:40:43 PM

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FractalEternalWheel

Why do organisms chose existence over non-existence? What drives organism so that they must survive,our lives are mostly filled with suffering. Like take for instance a mole it lives it's whole life in misery in the dark and it still wants to reproduce,look at the bees they work all of their life they still want to reproduce,look at the ants they only work and work and still they reproduce to continue this vicious cycle all this animals are no difference from us ,so why do people or other organism still tend to reproduce if all existence is suffering? Now there are times when you are happy or life seems perfect but those moments lasts for a very short time when suffering on the other side is much longer and stronger than happiness is.



Mermaid

Quote from: FractalEternalWheel on March 22, 2014, 03:40:43 PM
Why do organisms chose existence over non-existence? What drives organism so that they must survive,our lives are mostly filled with suffering. Like take for instance a mole it lives it's whole life in misery in the dark and it still wants to reproduce,look at the bees they work all of their life they still want to reproduce,look at the ants they only work and work and still they reproduce to continue this vicious cycle all this animals are no difference from us ,so why do people or other organism still tend to reproduce if all existence is suffering? Now there are times when you are happy or life seems perfect but those moments lasts for a very short time when suffering on the other side is much longer and stronger than happiness is.




Evolution.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

Poison Tree

#2
You'll likely find this an unsatisfying answer; Organisms live on because the genes of those who wanted not to live on are (at best) a small portion of the population because those who wanted not to live on reproduce at a lower rate than those who want to live. The genes of those who want to live (and reproduce) are propagated to the next generation. No species would long be a majority of those who wished not to live because they'd die.

*edit: or what Mermaid said much more succinctly *

For what little it is worth, I disagree with your last sentence and the last four words of the one before it.
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" Voltaire�s Candide

josephpalazzo

Quote from: FractalEternalWheel on March 22, 2014, 03:40:43 PM
Why do organisms chose existence over non-existence? What drives organism so that they must survive,our lives are mostly filled with suffering. Like take for instance a mole it lives it's whole life in misery in the dark and it still wants to reproduce,look at the bees they work all of their life they still want to reproduce,look at the ants they only work and work and still they reproduce to continue this vicious cycle all this animals are no difference from us ,so why do people or other organism still tend to reproduce if all existence is suffering? Now there are times when you are happy or life seems perfect but those moments lasts for a very short time when suffering on the other side is much longer and stronger than happiness is.




https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20140122-a-new-physics-theory-of-life/

stromboli

One does not choose nonexistence. You can choose to continue to exist and survive.

aitm

Quote from: FractalEternalWheel on March 22, 2014, 03:40:43 PM
Why do organisms chose existence over non-existence? What drives organism so that they must survive,our lives are mostly filled with suffering. Like take for instance a mole it lives it's whole life in misery in the dark and it still wants to reproduce,look at the bees they work all of their life they still want to reproduce,look at the ants they only work and work and still they reproduce to continue this vicious cycle all this animals are no difference from us ,so why do people or other organism still tend to reproduce if all existence is suffering? Now there are times when you are happy or life seems perfect but those moments lasts for a very short time when suffering on the other side is much longer and stronger than happiness is.




I think you have several issues here, firstly, "organisms" as organsims may not actually be cognizant of death so living is pretty much done by de facto. They don't "choose" as much as they simply don't "not" choose.
Your opinion that a mole lives in misery is a rather simple case of arrogance.  You don't know what a mole thinks. You seem to think that non-existence offers a better non-life than existence...can you offer some explanation of this? What does this magnificent non-existence of yours offer that is so much better?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

FractalEternalWheel

#6
Quote from: aitm on March 22, 2014, 10:50:53 PM
I think you have several issues here, firstly, "organisms" as organsims may not actually be cognizant of death so living is pretty much done by de facto. They don't "choose" as much as they simply don't "not" choose.
Your opinion that a mole lives in misery is a rather simple case of arrogance.  You don't know what a mole thinks. You seem to think that non-existence offers a better non-life than existence...can you offer some explanation of this? What does this magnificent non-existence of yours offer that is so much better?
Every kind of organism  with a brain experiences suffering a quick google search can answer that question.
Source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101229124208.htm
http://www.utilitarian-essays.com/insect-pain.html
I'm throwing the word pain and suffering in the same basket

Non-existence is better than life because first of all non-existence is eternal when life lasts few decades. When this life ends you enter into an eternity of peace freed from whatever kind of suffering,so again from my point of view eternity of peace is better than decades of constant struggle just so that you can pass your genetic material on,which seems extremely meaningless but again the universe isn't meaningless nor does it has a meaning ( if you understand what I'm trying to say,my english isn't so good)

I was thinking today that because of our suffering,we invented things like art,philosophy,science,religion,music... so that we can give our self some comfort in this life if we wouldn't be suffering why would we even need this things?. I also view friendship and love a product of suffering,if you would not be suffering why would love or friendship be even needed. So suffering in the end produces something good.

Although life is beautiful sometimes it is mostly hard we suffer most of the time,and the good times only lasts for a very short period of time. I But I still can't figure out why people want to live for an eternity or want to be reincarnated,... this sounds like hell for me.

anyway it would be nice if someone would be nice enough to listen to my stupid bitchin' because I feel so isolated not because I don't have any friends but because I can not communicate with them the things that seem important to me ( or they just don't understand my point of view which seems far more logical)

Mermaid

Quote from: FractalEternalWheel on March 23, 2014, 10:23:06 AM
Every kind of organism  with a brain experiences suffering a quick google search can answer that question.
Source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101229124208.htm
http://www.utilitarian-essays.com/insect-pain.html
I'm throwing the word pain and suffering in the same basket

Non-existence is better than life because first of all non-existence is eternal when life lasts few decades. When this life ends you enter into an eternity of peace freed from whatever kind of suffering,so again from my point of view eternity of peace is better than decades of constant struggle just so that you can pass your genetic material on,which seems extremely meaningless but again the universe isn't meaningless nor does it has a meaning ( if you understand what I'm trying to say,my english isn't so good)

I was thinking today that because of our suffering,we invented things like art,philosophy,science,religion,music... so that we can give our self some comfort in this life if we wouldn't be suffering why would we even need this things?. I also view friendship and love a product of suffering,if you would not be suffering why would love or friendship be even needed. So suffering in the end produces something good.

Although life is beautiful sometimes it is mostly hard we suffer most of the time,and the good times only lasts for a very short period of time. I But I still can't figure out why people want to live for an eternity or want to be reincarnated,... this sounds like hell for me.

anyway it would be nice if someone would be nice enough to listen to my stupid bitchin' because I feel so isolated not because I don't have any friends but because I can not communicate with them the things that seem important to me ( or they just don't understand my point of view which seems far more logical)

Because evolution.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Mermaid on March 23, 2014, 10:29:44 AM
Because evolution.

And evolution is a special case of a more general phenomenon. Any group of atoms, driven by an external source of energy (like the sun or chemical fuel) and surrounded by a heat bath (like the ocean or atmosphere), will gradually restructure itself in order to dissipate increasingly more energy. From there it's all about the laws of thermodynamics. Hence life is universal, and so is evolution.

the_antithesis

Quote from: FractalEternalWheel on March 22, 2014, 03:40:43 PM
Why do organisms chose existence over non-existence? What drives organism so that they must survive,our lives are mostly filled with suffering.


This is not philosophy. This is childish appeal to emotion with no thought or intelligence.

In other words, who the fuck are you to say moles are miserable? Do you know any moles? Do moles talk to you? They may love it in the dark underground. The fuck is wrong with you?

The Skeletal Atheist

What makes you assume that the mole or the bee are miserable? Maybe they like the situation they are in.
You have no way of knowing.

Also why do you assume that our lives are mostly filled with suffering? Maybe your life is mostly filled with suffering, to which I'd say that sucks and get some help if it's psychological, but don't try to project that unto every other person and animal out there.

If I'm correct, your argument boils down to this:

1. Most of life is suffering.
2. Existence is suffering.
3. Therefore why bother reproducing or even existing for that matter?

If that's the case your argument fails because 1 and 2 aren't proven.
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!

aitm

Quote from: FractalEternalWheel on March 23, 2014, 10:23:06 AM
Every kind of organism  with a brain experiences suffering
as we both know, feeling pain and being cognizent of death is a pretty large leap to make such an assumption on a organism if which you have no knowledge

QuoteNon-existence is better than life

supposition

QuoteI was thinking today
this is an excellent start.. i hope you do not stop anytime soon

QuoteAlthough life is beautiful sometimes it is mostly hard
this is true

Quoteanyway it would be nice if someone would be nice enough to listen ...... or they just don't understand my point of view which seems far more logical


of course we are listening, we are responding. Don't be so quick to jump off the cliff, although it seems you are already at the precipice. Many, many, many people have shared your frustration. Relax and scan a few threads that you find intriging before you write us off. If you wish to start this just so you can go off and cry god save me, than you can expect to be justly ridiculed as a moron. If you are just frustrated because god doesn't seem to hear you, then sit down and find out why.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Elect

Quote from: FractalEternalWheel on March 22, 2014, 03:40:43 PM
Why do organisms chose existence over non-existence?

The westernized world has confused you into thinking that you can choose basically anything. You can't choose existence like you can vote for a candidate or choose between toothpaste brands.
Bees and moles are unfamiliar with this whole choice concept. They don't need that shit. Also, they don't sit around and ponder thier existence like we do, they are too busy doing bee and mole stuff to be preoccupied with the meaning of suffering.

the_antithesis

Quote from: FractalEternalWheel on March 22, 2014, 03:40:43 PM
Why do organisms chose existence over non-existence? at drives

Because those that choose nonexistence do not live long enough to pass on their nonexistence-choosing gene. So all that's all that's leftover.

Death is the main engine of evolution. Only those that live long enough to reproduce get to pass their genes on to the next generation. Asking why organisms continue to survive is like asking why does shit roll downhill.

AllPurposeAtheist

Every time I see this thread I see 'why do orgasms tend to exist' and all I have come up with is it feels good.

Sorry.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.