Who is to say the Earth and humanity are not set up?

[darsenfeld]

I believe in evolution but then many of the pieces, whilst true, seem convenient.

It's said that the first cells were triggered by lightning striking oils, proteins and acids at the same spot.  Isn't this too much of a coincidence?  

Also, when mammals evolved, was the dinosaurs' extinction "necessary" for large mammals and eventually us to evolve?  

And regarding our own evolution, isn't it "chance" that homo erectus learnt how to harness fire?

I'm not saying creationism is true (far from it) but then who is to say some alien presence has not used the Earth as a macro test tube?  It's said by scientists that in 200,000 years there will be another ice age.  So humanity has 400,000 years to progress, develop and perhaps move to another planet or even reverse the ice age (impossible is subjective..tell ancient Romans that travelling from Rome to London and back was possible in a day, and see how they'd respond...)  Essentially then the era since the Cretaceous event was a large "window" to see how primates, apes, bipedal apes, proto-humans and then us could evolve.

[Poison Tree]

I believe in evolution but then many of the pieces, whilst true, seem convenient.

So?

It's said that the first cells were triggered by lightning striking oils, proteins and acids at the same spot.  Isn't this too much of a coincidence?

"It's said "? Too lazy to use google and read the actual currently proposed models?

Also, when mammals evolved, was the dinosaurs' extinction "necessary" for large mammals and eventually us to evolve?  

"necessary", no. Helpful, sure. Any [large] extinction will, necessarily, advantage the survivors over those who died.

And regarding our own evolution, isn't it "chance" that homo erectus learnt how to harness fire?

I'd call it a mix of randomness and lawfulness

I'm not saying creationism is true (far from it) but then who is to say some alien presence has not used the Earth as a macro test tube?  

Have any evidence supporting it?

It's said by scientists that in 200,000 years there will be another ice age.  

Oh?

So humanity has 400,000 years to progress, develop and perhaps move to another planet or even reverse the ice age (impossible is subjective..tell ancient Romans that travelling from Rome to London and back was possible in a day, and see how they'd respond...)  
Essentially then the era since the Cretaceous event was a large "window" to see how primates, apes, bipedal apes, proto-humans and then us could evolve.

assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence


edit: woohoo, rocking the satan

[darsenfeld]

just using this as a template for debate lol..  did your beliefs in evolution get undermined?

[Moriarty]

just using this as a template for debate lol..  did your beliefs in evolution get undermined?

Why would they? It's pretty well known that even those "convenient species" have at least a partially shared genome with humans. Obviously the further away one gets the less shared genome (primates and mice have a very close genome.) but isn't at all hard to see how everything relates even to this lay person.

[Hydra009]

I'm not saying creationism is true (far from it) but then who is to say some alien presence has not used the Earth as a macro test tube?

An interesting argument.  Should we abandon a scientific theory that has been repeatedly verified through discoveries in multiple disciplines for half-baked conjecture backed up by jack diddly?  Probably not.

[Plu]

There's two problems here.

The first is your sense of scale is off. It took a billion years and all of the world's oceans before life first appeared; no matter how coincidental and unlikely the required events sound, given a large enough timestamp and enough space, just about anything will eventually happen at least once.

The second is that you're reasoning after the fact. The only reason you can ask whether or not humanity was maybe predestined is because we exist. This means that again, no matter how small the odds of us appearing again if we re-seed another planet with life, the only scenario in which someone will wonder how small those odds are is if they came true.

If the dinosaurs hadn't gone exctinct, we wouldn't be here. Simple as that. You are trapped in the notion that humans were "meant to be" and that earth is "a special place for us". These things are not true. The reason there aren't humans on Mars wondering about how hostile the universe is to them, is because they'd be dead. Life must, by definition, exist in a place where it is sustainable, and humans must exist as they are in order to question, so talking about "the odds" is pointless. The odds of something having happened is always 100% after the fact.

[darsenfeld]

er..  but then if it's "after the fact" is irrelevant.  The fact is much of what determines life and its suitability on Earth is coincidental.  But yeah, thought experiments in the Philosophy forum are out of place, right? lol..

[darsenfeld]

I'm not saying creationism is true (far from it) but then who is to say some alien presence has not used the Earth as a macro test tube?

An interesting argument.  Should we abandon a scientific theory that has been repeatedly verified through discoveries in multiple disciplines for half-baked conjecture backed up by jack diddly?  Probably not.

[ Image ]

You're either stunted or not as smart as you project.

Can you say that the grounds for evolution have NOT been conditioned?  Whilst evolution per se has not been, again who is to say?  I thought science necessitated an open mind?  lol..

[Solitary]

Philosophy is mere opinion without reliable without empirical evidence to back it up.  :P  Solitary

[Plu]

er..  but then if it's "after the fact" is irrelevant.  The fact is much of what determines life and its suitability on Earth is coincidental.  But yeah, thought experiments in the Philosophy forum are out of place, right? lol..

No, it's just that your argument is both stupid and done many times before. I just gave you the short version of why saying "it was set up" is silly.

[aitm]

And regarding our own evolution, isn't it "chance" that homo erectus learnt how to harness fire

Harness? You mean, see a fire, observe how it burns and watch as it eventually turns to embers which they can see being blown about and starting other fires and then....you know, think? Yeah, chance .....alrighty then.

[darsenfeld]

er..  but then if it's "after the fact" is irrelevant.  The fact is much of what determines life and its suitability on Earth is coincidental.  But yeah, thought experiments in the Philosophy forum are out of place, right? lol..

No, it's just that your argument is both stupid and done many times before. I just gave you the short version of why saying "it was set up" is silly.

er... but you said to say it's set up is silly because it takes sapient beings to consider this.  And?  It doesn't invalidate the process, and cannot.

[darsenfeld]

And regarding our own evolution, isn't it "chance" that homo erectus learnt how to harness fire

Harness? You mean, see a fire, observe how it burns and watch as it eventually turns to embers which they can see being blown about and starting other fires and then....you know, think? Yeah, chance .....alrighty then.

lol..  OK, but yeah our current understanding of evolution is absolute fact, never to be questioned or revised unlike all other science right?  

I don't care if it seems "dumb", many aspects lending to our existence and all life on Earth seem too coincidental.  So yeah, the idea that life on Earth could be an experiment of how evolution takes place is dim haha..  wow, Aspergers?

And to the guy who mocks philosophy, yeah...  it took evil philosophy to devise atheism.  evil philosophy to devise science.  and evil philosophy to lead to the modern world, with our cherished liberal democracy, systems of rights, etc. and the foundation of his own country (if he's American).  Jefferson and Franklin and co. based your society on the works of "inept" philosophers...  realise phiosophy is not meant to be a science but a thought experiment.  and damn fucking useful one at that...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I see what you mean about him.  8-)

[darsenfeld]

lulz..  i don't care.  just chuckling at the irony of you all dismissing philosophy when your country wouldn't exist without it..